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**To**:*alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk***Subject**:**Re: \ell****From**:*bbeeton <BNB@MATH.AMS.ORG>***Date**: 05 Aug 1993 10:53:05 -0400 (EDT)**Cc**:*math-font-discuss@cogs.susx.ac.uk*

alan jeffrey points out the distinct v and w in the mathtime fonts. the v in the times italic has traditionally been a source of problems for math typesetting, and, just as traditionally, compositors have substituted the letter v (and w to match in style) from some other font, which i believe was usually one from the century family, perhaps schoolbook. without checking, i can't say whether the substitution was carried over to italic text (theorems, etc.) as well as in math notation, but with tex we have the ability to treat the two environments differently, and we have in fact done that at ams -- in text, the v and w are the sharp-bottomed times shapes, and in math, the rounded forms are used, in our case based on cm. (this leads to a similarity between v and upsilon, and though it's not as problematic as the v/nu similarity, there must really be a middle ground that we haven't yet stumbled on.) anyhow, the v and w should not be given separate, extra slots. for tex, text italic and math italic will remain separate. but care must be taken in implementing the ambiguous shapes in the math italic. (this is really no different from the need to distinguish between "cap oh" and zero, and between "ell", one and "cap eye" in a sans serif font intended for use in presenting electronic addresses; it's simply impossible to use a font of "normal" design -- a more specialized approach is needed.) -- bb

**References**:**Re: \ell***From:*alanje@cogs.susx.ac.uk (Alan Jeffrey)