[tex-live] "Update all installed" following virgin install does nothing

[Norbert Preining]

Hi Phil,

On Do, 15 Mär 2012, Philip TAYLOR wrote:
> You are very kind :-) 

I know, I am famous for that!

> at the time that TeX Live 2011 was released that I had
> no intention of using it until it was frozen in preparation

So then you do not need "Update all" at alll ... yeah!

> Yet now it no longer does it, and I spotted some
> "Win32" thingy has been updated; has it perhaps,
> even if expected, now been fixed ?

Impossible unless *you* have changed something, either by
removing or reinstalling something. We did for sure NOT
change the DVD you are using ... well maybe I have 
telepathic capabilities to change the bits on your disk ..
hahaha, you got me, now you know why everything always
breaks on your computer!

> The text beyond this point does not appear.

It does appear, but is scrolled upward.... I know ... but you can change
the size of the subframe.

> because I /know/ that the TeX Live installer is written by
> highly intelligent people (such as your good self) who will
> of course see that leaving it set to a static medium such
> as a DVD will be of no use to man nor beast ...

Besides that there are those people that:
- use a rsync mirror of CTAN on their hard drive
- use some other mirror system
and all of them don't use a *network* repository but something
that you call "static medium", but which is updated in different
ways.

Furthermore, there are those who make partial installations, and
don't want to update anything, but only add missing packages.
(That would be something for you, you don't need to wait for the
repo to get frozen, just use the DVD as is and be happy).
They might NOT want to update anything.

So no, without *asking* we will NOT change the choosen repository.

> But why should such a change be needed ?  The installer /knows/
> that the installation repository was a DVD, and that no updates

No, it knows that it was installed from a file system and not the
network. But that does not mean anything ... see above.

>> The button does exactely what it says, it updates all packages with respect
>> to the currently loaded remote repository, as indicated right on the
>> top of the tlmgr window.
>
> Two places to look, not one.  Having tunnel vision, I looked

Huuuuu ... the window is about 500px high ... that is not sooooo far.

> No, there is a world of difference between setting the default
> repository for me (which I have not set, and therefore do not
> care to what it is set, so long as the latter is sensible),
> and changing something as fundamental to the way the O/S
> works as a file association, /particularly/ when said file
> association is clearly way outside of TeX Live's aegis.

As said, it should only add non-existing file associations by default.
Wasn't it you who complained that the installer does not look
like a typical Windows installer ("clickclickclick-finish")? Many
times these progrs overwrite associations without asking. We *should*
not do that, if yes, and if we can reproduce it, then it is a bug.

> Thus the correct repository has been selected (according to the
> status window, yet we both [now] know that it has not), and
> the task has completed, yet nothing has been updated.

That is the last line of the message telling you that this is the
way to change it.

-----------------------------

I think from all this useless long emails there are two points to keep:
- verify/confirm and if necessary fix the association point
  that is a real bug
- think about how to make it easier/more obvious for the users to
  change the repository

We will think about it and take appropriate measures.

Thanks a lot

Norbert
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Norbert Preining            preining@{jaist.ac.jp, logic.at, debian.org}
JAIST, Japan                                 TeX Live & Debian Developer
DSA: 0x09C5B094   fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76  A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094
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