[tex-live] tlmgr query

Norbert Preining preining at logic.at
Sun Jul 26 22:36:00 CEST 2009

Dear Rowland,

First of all: You have the questions, we have the answers, so please
remain polite. 

You wrote:

On So, 26 Jul 2009, Rowland McDonnell wrote:
> I came here seeking technical answers to technical questions.  What I've
> got is a lot of personal abuse and upsetting comments and bugger all
> technical information!

as an answer to my email, which I finished with:

On Fr, 24 Jul 2009, Norbert Preining wrote:
> All the best, hope you read that email carefully, it cotains many hidden
> pearls that might help you on your epic quest.

and why? You posed three questions, I gave technical answers to all of

On Fr, 24 Jul 2009, Norbert Preining wrote:
> > Unplug Babel
> That is interesting, and not easily supported. So what you want are
> special formats that do NOT contain babel, right?
> The easiest way to achive that is to put your additional format 
> definitions into
> 	ROOT/texmf-local/web2c/fmtutil-local.cnf
> where ROOT is the root of your installation, AFAIR 
> 	/usr/local/texlive/2009
> in your case.
> Then these formats will be always included in the fmtutil.cnf file
> generated by tlmgr and used by fmtutil-sys. It is the one in 
> 	ROOT/texmf-var/web2c/fmtutil.cnf
> (explained in tlmgr help under action "generate")
> > Plug in some additional founts
> Simply put them into
> 	ROOT/texmf-local/
> in a TDS compliant way and call as the one who installed TeX Live:
> 	updmap-sys --enable Map your.map
> (explained in tlmgr help under action "generate")
> > Add a local system-wide additional TEXMF tree.
> use 
> 	ROOT/texmf-local
> or add a line
> 	TEXMFLOCAL = /the/path/to/your/system/local/tree
> in
> 	ROOT/texmf.cnf
> (there is already that file but without any entry but comments).
> (usual configuration)

So as I said, there are technical answers, but you just ignore them.

To give you even more technical answers, now that you have given more and
more and enough information what you want to achieve:

> I want to have UK English hyphenation set up by default and there
> appears to be no way of doing that with Babel.
> I want to use the same standard method for using a local hyphenation
> pattern that I've been using for years and years - a local hyphen.cfg
> file (I have to use a trivially modfied LaTeX format,  because there's
> already a hyphen.cfg supplied by Babel so I modify a LaTeX format
> re-named rmLaTeX to call rmhyphen.cfg instead).
> >The easiest way to achive that is to put your additional format 
> >definitions into
> >   ROOT/texmf-local/web2c/fmtutil-local.cnf

Perfect, put the resepctive fmtutil.cnf line in the above file.

> Okay - why <TL2008ROOT>/texmf-local?
> And why `/web2c'?

Because *I* decided it that way and wrote tlmgr and install-tl that way.

Concerning the tree:
> Therefore, so that I can remain with a consistently working TeX
> installation, I use a local system-wide texmf tree that's added thus
> (for MacTeX 2008 only):
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> find / -name "texmf.cnf" 
> Edit a copy of /usr/local/texlive/2008/texmf.cnf. 
> Add the following—do not put return characters in it: 
> TEXMFRM = /Users/Shared/texmf.rjmm 
> The main texmf.cnf file lives at /usr/local/texlive/2008/texmf/ 
> web2c/. Do not modify it. 
> -----------------------------------------------------------------
> For all I know, some routine operation of tlmgr will wipe out that
> change.  I am loathe to run tlmgr to do *anything*.

You are wrong. That change will be kept, even over updates. tlmgr only
updates 2008/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf, which is the main .cnf. But
everything you put into 2008/texmf.cnf will not be overwritten by tlmgr.

So yes, that is the right way to achieve what you want.

But why didn't you ask:
   Will tlmgr overwrite changes I made to 2008/texmf.cnf?

You would have gotten the answer:

and you could have been content.

As a closing to the technical part:

> A working TeX installation is useful to me.  tlmgr is a threat to that
> usefulness - therefore I will not use tlmgr, not until I understand what
> it does.

That is fine, and we stated that several times in release notes etc.
tlmgr is for those who always want to have the latest release of 
certain LaTeX sty files, font support files etc. For those happy with
stock TL2008 DVD tlmgr can be immediately forgotten, no need to touch it.

For the definitive closing, two things:
- first thanks for spotting the typo *within* the .pdf. I was searching
  for the Typo on the web site but didn't find it. 

- second, to make one thing clear:

On So, 26 Jul 2009, Rowland McDonnell wrote:
> Man-months?  Please!  You do not work ceaselessly on TeX for months at a
> time.  You break for biological maintenance tasks such as eating and
> sleeping, for your social and family life - and for the employment you
> get paid for doing.

Man-months are working time months, so 40h a week for the whole month.
And yes, I have invested *MUCH*MORE* then a few man-months in TeX Live.
If you don't believe me, look into the code, ask anyone here, anyone
you trust in TeX Live.

Best wishes


Dr. Norbert Preining <preining at logic.at>        Vienna University of Technology
Debian Developer <preining at debian.org>                         Debian TeX Group
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