From invite+p3-puwud at facebookmail.com Thu Oct 1 15:22:07 2009 From: invite+p3-puwud at facebookmail.com (Geoff Russell) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 06:22:07 -0700 Subject: [texhax] Check out my photos on Facebook Message-ID: <56787fd2ab12dd00036cea1466d831ef@localhost.localdomain> Hi texhax at tug.org, I set up a Facebook profile where I can post my pictures, videos and events and I want to add you as a friend so you can see it. First, you need to join Facebook! Once you join, you can also create your own profile. Thanks, Geoff To sign up for Facebook, follow the link below: http://www.facebook.com/p.php?i=100000004667744&k=Z6E3Y5W2QXX1XF1JPF34SPTZZTIB4X21TVBRJ&r texhax at tug.org was invited to join Facebook by Geoff Russell. If you do not wish to receive this type of email from Facebook in the future, please click on the link below to unsubscribe. http://www.facebook.com/o.php?k=98f0b1&u=1431245991&mid=12eaa2dG554f14a7G0G8 Facebook's offices are located at 1601 S. California Ave., Palo Alto, CA 94304. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From yosato16 at gmail.com Thu Oct 1 18:46:12 2009 From: yosato16 at gmail.com (Yo Sato) Date: Thu, 1 Oct 2009 16:46:12 +0000 (UTC) Subject: [texhax] home texmf dir not searched Message-ID: Hi all, I have found the latex installed on my Fedora Core 11 machine (TeXLive) somehow stopped searching my home texmf dir, (as default at ~/texmf as stated in the /usr/share/texmf/web2c/texmf.cnf file. It was working okay until recently and I have not modified the cnf file for some time. Maybe a bug of an update --the system's kept updated? I'm using TeXLive. If anybody has the same problem and/or has a possible solution please advise. Yo From rvyborny at iinet.net.au Sat Oct 3 04:09:30 2009 From: rvyborny at iinet.net.au (Rudolf Vyborny) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 12:09:30 +1000 Subject: [texhax] verb color Message-ID: <1254535770.5702.5.camel@rudolf-laptop> Could you, please let me know how and where can I find packages and documentation or coloring the background of verbatim text which spreads over several lines or even across pages? Thanking you in anticipation -- Rudolf Vyborny Emeritus Professor rvyborny at uq.edu.au rvyborny at iinet.net.au 15 Rialanna Street Kenmore, Qld 4069 Australia tel=61 7 33782408 Skype rvyborny From mr_heller at yahoo.dk Sat Oct 3 06:57:17 2009 From: mr_heller at yahoo.dk (Martin Heller) Date: Sat, 03 Oct 2009 06:57:17 +0200 Subject: [texhax] verb color In-Reply-To: <1254535770.5702.5.camel@rudolf-laptop> References: <1254535770.5702.5.camel@rudolf-laptop> Message-ID: Rudolf Vyborny wrote: > Could you, please let me know how and where can I find packages and > documentation or coloring the background of verbatim text which spreads > over several lines or even across pages? > Thanking you in anticipation the fancyverb package can do that From paperdigits at gmail.com Sat Oct 3 12:43:34 2009 From: paperdigits at gmail.com (Mica Semrick) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 03:43:34 -0700 Subject: [texhax] memoir package, \begin{verse}[\versewidth], poem title Message-ID: <6480DF5B-4368-4176-99F8-F8D3936A84F6@gmail.com> I am using the memoir package to try and typeset some poems, and I am running into a slight problem. I am using the verse environment with the \versewidth command to center the poem. I would like to have the title of the poem flush with the body of the poem. How would I do this? This is where I am currently stuck in the code: \documentclass[12pt,oneside]{memoir} \pagestyle{plain} \chapterstyle{dash} \renewcommand{\PoemTitlefont}{% \normalfont\sffamily\hspace{\vleftmargin}} %Remove centering from the poem title \begin{document} \settowidth{\versewidth}{this is a pretty long line in my poem} \PlainPoemTitle \PoemTitle{My Great Poem Title} \begin{verse}[\versewidth] this is the body of my poem\\ and its pretty bad\\ please help me with my problem\\ and i will be quite glad\\ and: his is a pretty long line in my poem\\ \end{verse} \newpage \end{document} Any help would be greatly appreciated, I've been working on this for a few days with no results. Best, Mica From vafa at users.berlios.de Sat Oct 3 07:52:12 2009 From: vafa at users.berlios.de (Vafa Khalighi) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 15:52:12 +1000 Subject: [texhax] verb color In-Reply-To: References: <1254535770.5702.5.camel@rudolf-laptop> Message-ID: <605202f20910022252k2b37631dr670987867ae0ff6e@mail.gmail.com> > the fancyverb package can do that > > > > Alternatively, you can use showexpl package. Also you cant try bidicode package which is a part of bidi system (bidirectional typesetting for PDFTeX and XeTeX). -- Vafa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From crebecca at uchicago.edu Sat Oct 3 17:22:18 2009 From: crebecca at uchicago.edu (crebecca at uchicago.edu) Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 10:22:18 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [texhax] memoir package, \begin{verse}[\versewidth], poem title In-Reply-To: <6480DF5B-4368-4176-99F8-F8D3936A84F6@gmail.com> References: <6480DF5B-4368-4176-99F8-F8D3936A84F6@gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091003102218.BTR30452@m4500-03.uchicago.edu> Dear Mica - I'm using {article}, not {memoir}, but here's the brute force solution I've found - retain centering for titles, then adjusting for flushleft by using \hspace with negative values. If there's a more elegant approach, I'd also be grateful to know more. The Muses are particularly mysterious when they speak verse in LaTeX. Rebecca \begin{verse} \begin{center} \hspace{-2in} Stanza II.\verselinebreak \end{center} To left-justify verse apace\\ You can subtract hspace\verselinebreak \end{verse} ---- Original message ---- >Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 03:43:34 -0700 >From: Mica Semrick >Subject: [texhax] memoir package, \begin{verse}[\versewidth], poem title >To: texhax at tug.org > >I am using the memoir package to try and typeset some poems, and I am >running into a slight problem. I am using the verse environment with >the \versewidth command to center the poem. I would like to have the >title of the poem flush with the body of the poem. How would I do this? > >This is where I am currently stuck in the code: > >\documentclass[12pt,oneside]{memoir} > >\pagestyle{plain} >\chapterstyle{dash} >\renewcommand{\PoemTitlefont}{% >\normalfont\sffamily\hspace{\vleftmargin}} %Remove centering from the >poem title > >\begin{document} > >\settowidth{\versewidth}{this is a pretty long line in my poem} >\PlainPoemTitle >\PoemTitle{My Great Poem Title} >\begin{verse}[\versewidth] > >this is the body of my poem\\ >and its pretty bad\\ >please help me with my problem\\ >and i will be quite glad\\ >and: his is a pretty long line in my poem\\ >\end{verse} >\newpage > >\end{document} > >Any help would be greatly appreciated, I've been working on this for a >few days with no results. > >Best, >Mica >_______________________________________________ >TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > >Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org -------------------------- Rebecca Chung crebecca at uchicago.edu if you receive this message in error, please notify crebecca at uchicago.edu and support at uchicago.edu From olegkat at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 07:15:17 2009 From: olegkat at gmail.com (Oleg Katsitadze) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:15:17 +0300 Subject: [texhax] Toubles with \vbox within \item environment In-Reply-To: <4ABFC2AB.4080307@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <87ab0gtcka.fsf@gmail.com> <4ABFC2AB.4080307@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <20091005051517.GC2517@thor> On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 08:53:15PM +0100, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > \item{} bla bla bla > $$\vbox{\advance \hsize by -20 pt bla bla}$$ > \end Or, more generally \item{} bla bla bla $$\vbox{\advance\hsize-\parindent ...}$$ \bye Oleg From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Mon Oct 5 14:58:33 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 09:58:33 -0300 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 378 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AC9C349.18945.E50025@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Hello, you go to displayed (and centered) math directly after the item command (which does not need a {}), which will IMHO not be written at the same height as the item symbol, but below. Further you want the hsize bigger than normal. I would think that your not augmented hsize might yet be the same as the original \textwidth (augment \linewidth, if that is tolerated), so to make it bigger gives an impossible wide vbox. I would try the following: \item $\displaystyle ... $ or even \item \hfil $\displaystyle ...$ to center it on the available horizontal space. hh From: texhax-request at tug.org Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 378 To: texhax at tug.org Send reply to: texhax at tug.org Date sent: Mon, 05 Oct 2009 12:00:01 +0200 > Send texhax mailing list submissions to > texhax at tug.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > texhax-request at tug.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > texhax-owner at tug.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of texhax digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Toubles with \vbox within \item environment (Oleg Katsitadze) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 08:15:17 +0300 > From: Oleg Katsitadze > To: texhax at tug.org > Subject: Re: [texhax] Toubles with \vbox within \item environment > Message-ID: <20091005051517.GC2517 at thor> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > On Sun, Sep 27, 2009 at 08:53:15PM +0100, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > > \item{} bla bla bla > > $$\vbox{\advance \hsize by -20 pt bla bla}$$ > > \end > > Or, more generally > > \item{} bla bla bla > $$\vbox{\advance\hsize-\parindent ...}$$ > \bye > > Oleg > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > texhax mailing list > texhax at tug.org > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > > End of texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 378 > ***************************************** From najmi.zabidi at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 08:20:42 2009 From: najmi.zabidi at gmail.com (Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 14:20:42 +0800 Subject: [texhax] Split Screen For Emacs Console with preview latex Message-ID: Hello, I want to know how to create split emacs screen for real time Latex ouput, which is something like this: http://www.emacswiki.org/pics/static/LaTeXMathPreviewScreenshot.png I tried: Auctex - this one using internal output Whizzytex- this use ADVI output Yatex - plan to use latex-math-preview (using default install in Ubuntu apt-get install yatex), but can't managed to get it work. Can you guys lead me? I saw my friend did that years back, but I am not sure whether current emacs support that. Also can emacs with -nw flag append that in it's screen? Since currently I'm using plain console. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From d_lewan2000 at yahoo.com Mon Oct 5 23:35:18 2009 From: d_lewan2000 at yahoo.com (Douglas Lewan) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 14:35:18 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [texhax] Split Screen For Emacs Console with preview latex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <249589.19930.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Muhammad, I serious doubt that emacs on a console can do what you want. However, if you can find an appropriate console DVI viewer you might be able to use screen(1) to run emacs in one console and the DVI view in another. Disclaimer: In my 5 minute search I was not able to find much good about graphics on a Linux console. (It's possible. Mplayer can do it. But it's not common and it may be disruptive.) ,Doug Douglas Lewan (908) 720-7908 d_lewan2000 at yahoo.com ________________________________ From: Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi To: texhax at tug.org Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 2:20:42 AM Subject: [texhax] Split Screen For Emacs Console with preview latex Hello, I want to know how to create split emacs screen for real time Latex ouput, which is something like this: http://www.emacswiki.org/pics/static/LaTeXMathPreviewScreenshot.png I tried: Auctex - this one using internal output Whizzytex- this use ADVI output Yatex - plan to use latex-math-preview (using default install in Ubuntu apt-get install yatex), but can't managed to get it work. Can you guys lead me? I saw my friend did that years back, but I am not sure whether current emacs support that. Also can emacs with -nw flag append that in it's screen? Since currently I'm using plain console. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From wa2n at nrar.net Tue Oct 6 00:20:22 2009 From: wa2n at nrar.net (wawan) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 05:20:22 +0700 Subject: [texhax] renewenviroment paragraph Message-ID: Hi all I need to add a symbol at beginning paragraph and a symbo at end of paragraph can I do this by modified paragraph enviroment ? howto do it Regards wa2nlinux -- ===================== http://wa2n.nrar.net http://lsdir.org http://kamusgaul.com ===================== -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From najmi.zabidi at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 03:45:34 2009 From: najmi.zabidi at gmail.com (Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 09:45:34 +0800 Subject: [texhax] Arabtex in Cygwin, possible? Message-ID: Hello, I want to use Arabtex package in Cygwin - if possible, does anyone knows on how to install Arabic package in Cygwin? Thanks. -- Sent from Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From cbrewster at gmail.com Mon Oct 5 20:23:28 2009 From: cbrewster at gmail.com (Christopher Brewster) Date: Mon, 5 Oct 2009 19:23:28 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Help with a latex package file (euproposal) Message-ID: I am using a latex class file called euproposal.cls (from here http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/euproposal/) to prepare a research proposal for the EC. I am very happy with this latex class except that it generates "workpackage" tables where the list of "participants" goes off the page (cf image here: http://thirlmere.aston.ac.uk/~kiffer/docs/Euproposal_workpackage_problem.pdf) I have contacted the author but received no response (no reproach to him). I do not know how to edit the package file to change this behaviour or even if it is possible. Any suggestions would be appreciated. By the way, a "minimal example" is hard to provide here because it is an extremely complex and sophisticated package. I would be happy to provide it off line. Thank you, Christopher Operations and Information Management Group, Aston Business School, Aston University, From najmi.zabidi at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 08:14:30 2009 From: najmi.zabidi at gmail.com (Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:14:30 +0800 Subject: [texhax] Several questions - Yatex, XeTeX, WhizzyTex Message-ID: 1- Anybody is using YaTex here? I installed it once but since the users are mainly from Japan, I can' really understand its strength. 2- How to use WhizzyTex with XeTex(XeLatex) .. I can't preview the output in real time as what I got with LaTeX (example .tex file http://kict.iiu.edu.my/~najmi/najmi-cv.html ) . Currently I compiled this with XeLateX in Kile editor. Thanks. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From najmi.zabidi at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 08:15:45 2009 From: najmi.zabidi at gmail.com (Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:15:45 +0800 Subject: [texhax] Split Screen For Emacs Console with preview latex In-Reply-To: <249589.19930.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> References: <249589.19930.qm@web52707.mail.re2.yahoo.com> Message-ID: Hello Lewan, I can't find DVI reader embedded in console (although I think it's cool), since currently DVI/ADVI fire up their own windows. On Tue, Oct 6, 2009 at 5:35 AM, Douglas Lewan wrote: > Muhammad, > > I serious doubt that emacs on a console can do what you want. However, if > you can find an appropriate console DVI viewer you *might* be able to use > screen(1) to run emacs in one console and the DVI view in another. > > Disclaimer: In my 5 minute search I was not able to find much good about > graphics on a Linux console. (It's possible. Mplayer can do it. But it's > not common and it may be disruptive.) > > ,Doug > Douglas Lewan > (908) 720-7908 > d_lewan2000 at yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > *From:* Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi > *To:* texhax at tug.org > *Sent:* Monday, October 5, 2009 2:20:42 AM > *Subject:* [texhax] Split Screen For Emacs Console with preview latex > > Hello, > > I want to know how to create split emacs screen for real time Latex ouput, > which is something like this: > > http://www.emacswiki.org/pics/static/LaTeXMathPreviewScreenshot.png > > I tried: > Auctex - this one using internal output > Whizzytex- this use ADVI output > Yatex - plan to use latex-math-preview (using default install in Ubuntu > apt-get install yatex), but can't managed to get it work. > > Can you guys lead me? I saw my friend did that years back, but I am not > sure whether current emacs support that. > > Also can emacs with -nw flag append that in it's screen? Since currently > I'm using plain console. > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Tue Oct 6 10:41:52 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 05:41:52 -0300 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ACAD8A0.25993.FD25A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Create an \newenvironment. Or \renewenvironment. There is one bracket where to put in what happens at the beginning of the environment, another bracket for what happens at the end. hh From: texhax-request at tug.org Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 To: texhax at tug.org Send reply to: texhax at tug.org Date sent: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:15:53 +0200 > From: wawan > To: texhax at tug.org > Subject: [texhax] renewenviroment paragraph > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all > I need to add a symbol at beginning paragraph and a symbo at end of > paragraph > can I do this by modified paragraph enviroment ? howto do it > From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Tue Oct 6 10:41:52 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 05:41:52 -0300 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ACAD8A0.4447.FD2D7@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> From: texhax-request at tug.org Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 To: texhax at tug.org Send reply to: texhax at tug.org Date sent: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:15:53 +0200 > From: wawan > To: texhax at tug.org > Subject: [texhax] renewenviroment paragraph > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi all > I need to add a symbol at beginning paragraph and a symbo at end of > paragraph > can I do this by modified paragraph enviroment ? howto do it > From philip.ratcliffe at email.it Tue Oct 6 14:22:39 2009 From: philip.ratcliffe at email.it (Philip G. Ratcliffe) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 14:22:39 +0200 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 In-Reply-To: <4ACAD8A0.25993.FD25A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: > Create an \newenvironment. Or \renewenvironment. There is one bracket > where to put in what happens at the beginning of the environment, > another bracket for what happens at the end. This is a little misleading: both \newenvironment\paragraph{...}{...} and \renewenvironment\paragraph{...}{...} will throw up an error: The command \paragraph is already defined but is not an environment. The poster will have to use a different name, e.g., \newenvironment\myparagraph{...}{...} Cheers, Phil -- Caselle da 1GB, trasmetti allegati fino a 3GB e in piu' IMAP, POP3 e SMTP autenticato? GRATIS solo con Email.it http://www.email.it/f Sponsor: Vuoi avere aggiornamento in tempo reale sul tuo Blackberry anche di agenda e rubrica? * Email Groupware ? quello che fa per te! Clicca per maggiori informazioni oppure chiamaci allo 0125/627650 Clicca qui: http://adv.email.it/cgi-bin/foclick.cgi?mid=9590&d=6-10 From tsc25 at cantab.net Tue Oct 6 14:37:29 2009 From: tsc25 at cantab.net (Toby Cubitt) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 13:37:29 +0100 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 In-Reply-To: References: <4ACAD8A0.25993.FD25A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 02:22:39PM +0200, Philip G. Ratcliffe wrote: > > Create an \newenvironment. Or \renewenvironment. There is one bracket > > where to put in what happens at the beginning of the environment, > > another bracket for what happens at the end. > > This is a little misleading: both \newenvironment\paragraph{...}{...} and > \renewenvironment\paragraph{...}{...} will throw up an error: Really? I just tried \renewenvironment{paragraph}{foo}{bar} and it happily defines the new paragraph environment (redefining the \paragraph command behind the scenes, with no complaints). Toby -- Dr T. S. Cubitt Quantum Information Theory group Department of Mathematics University of Bristol United Kingdom email: tsc25 at cantab.net web: www.dr-qubit.org From jgandradev at me.com Tue Oct 6 15:22:19 2009 From: jgandradev at me.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jes=FAs_Guillermo_Andrade?=) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 08:52:19 -0430 Subject: [texhax] Split Screen For Emacs Console with preview latex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Hello Muhammad: You will NOT find anything of sorts (dvi previewer on terminal). The graphic reference you have shared with us is, simply, emacs+preview which, BTW, both run over a Xserver or windows or whatever other OS with a Window Manager, so it not possible to produce that example from a simple "terminal" as you surmised. Now, if you are into emacs, I suggest you download the latest version and then byte compile the preview package with auctex. Guillermo El oct 5, 2009, a las 1:50 a.m., Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi escribi?: > Hello, > > I want to know how to create split emacs screen for real time Latex > ouput, > which is something like this: > > http://www.emacswiki.org/pics/static/LaTeXMathPreviewScreenshot.png > > I tried: > Auctex - this one using internal output > Whizzytex- this use ADVI output > Yatex - plan to use latex-math-preview (using default install in > Ubuntu > apt-get install yatex), but can't managed to get it work. > > Can you guys lead me? I saw my friend did that years back, but I am > not sure > whether current emacs support that. > > Also can emacs with -nw flag append that in it's screen? Since > currently I'm > using plain console. > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 6 16:38:35 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:38:35 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> Message-ID: <4ACB566B.9070409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Karl Berry wrote: > So, if anyone has been waiting to test until things are getting close to > final ... now would be a good time to give it a shot. Information about > trying the pretest is at http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html. Trying now, for the first time. Choosing the "Rsync" method, I am advised to : rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://somehost/some/path/ /your/local/dir which using the information in : http://tug.org/texlive/mirmon/ and finding no UK mirror, I map to rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exc lude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror whereupon I am told : The source and destination cannot both be remote. rsync error: syntax or usage error (code 1) at /home/lapo/packaging/rsync-3.0.4- 1/src/rsync-3.0.4/main.c(1136) [receiver=3.0.4] The error message is invariant with the direction of slashes in "h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror" Suggestions, please ? ** Phil. From Susan.Dittmar at gmx.de Tue Oct 6 16:55:04 2009 From: Susan.Dittmar at gmx.de (Susan Dittmar) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:55:04 +0200 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 In-Reply-To: <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> References: <4ACAD8A0.25993.FD25A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> Message-ID: <20091006145504.GB32404@eureca.de> Quoting Toby Cubitt (tsc25 at cantab.net): > Really? I just tried \renewenvironment{paragraph}{foo}{bar} and it > happily defines the new paragraph environment (redefining the \paragraph > command behind the scenes, with no complaints). No complaints only because you did not put it through tests. With \re... you circumvented exactly the tests the others ran into. But your code will break a lot of existing examples -- anything using the standard \paragraph syntax. Probably without any helpful error messages -- TeX will just be missing \end's. It's much safer to give it a unique name as it differs quite a bit from the standard \paragraph. Susan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 6 17:02:25 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:02:25 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB5A18.5070901@morningstar2.co.uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB566B.9070409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB5A18.5070901@morningstar2.co.uk> Message-ID: <4ACB5C01.2040401@Rhul.Ac.Uk> This is the Synametrics port of Rsync, supplied as a part of their DeltaCopy package, and as used by me for mirroring TeX Live 2008 last year. ** Phil. -------- Joseph Wright wrote: > Can you give us a clue as to your rsync program? On Windows, I only know > of it being available as part of cygwin. From uwe.lueck at web.de Tue Oct 6 16:59:26 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:59:26 +0200 Subject: [texhax] renewenviroment paragraph [... Digest ...] In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091006165056.02f21e40@pop3.web.de> At 00:20 06.10.09, wawan wrote: >I need to add a symbol at beginning paragraph and a symbo at end of paragraph >can I do this by modified paragraph enviroment ? howto do it OK, some people know how to \renewenvironment{paragraph}, but what is it good for? I rather guess that wawan wants that each paragraph starts with some end ends with some , so he types Hello world! and gets Hello world! However, to achieve this by some \renewenvironment{paragraph} is sort of voodoo thinking. Rather (a sketch only) \everypar{} \let\formerpar\par \def\par{\formerpar} This is just a sketch in particular because it is not very compatible with LaTeX's use of \everypar and \par. Sorry, I am in a hurry ... -- Uwe. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 6 17:22:39 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:22:39 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <200910061911.38183.urkud.urkud@gmail.com> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB5A18.5070901@morningstar2.co.uk> <4ACB5C01.2040401@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <200910061911.38183.urkud.urkud@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ACB60BF.6080302@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Yury G. Kudryashov wrote: > Why haven't you contacted Synametrics? It seems that their rsync is either > buggy or needs another syntax. Because so far there is no evidence to suggest that this behaviour is an artifact of the Synametrics port. * Phil. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 6 17:22:55 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:22:55 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> Message-ID: <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> (cont). As a work-around, I change directory to H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror and replace the final element of the previous "Rsync" incantation with "." Rsync is then prepared to do something, but immediately reports : > skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.exe" > skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.exe.sha256" > skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.sh" > skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.sh.sha256" What are "non-regular" files, please ? ** Phil. From tsc25 at cantab.net Tue Oct 6 17:25:56 2009 From: tsc25 at cantab.net (Toby Cubitt) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:25:56 +0100 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 In-Reply-To: <20091006145504.GB32404@eureca.de> References: <4ACAD8A0.25993.FD25A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> <20091006145504.GB32404@eureca.de> Message-ID: <20091006152556.GH8370@c3po> On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 04:55:04PM +0200, Susan Dittmar wrote: > Quoting Toby Cubitt (tsc25 at cantab.net): > > Really? I just tried \renewenvironment{paragraph}{foo}{bar} and it > > happily defines the new paragraph environment (redefining the \paragraph > > command behind the scenes, with no complaints). > > No complaints only because you did not put it through tests. With \re... > you circumvented exactly the tests the others ran into. But your code will > break a lot of existing examples -- anything using the standard \paragraph > syntax. Probably without any helpful error messages -- TeX will just be > missing \end's. It's much safer to give it a unique name as it differs > quite a bit from the standard \paragraph. You're probably right that giving it a new name is safer. I was just pointing out that the statement: >>> [...] both \newenvironment\paragraph{...}{...} >>> and \renewenvironment\paragraph{...}{...} will throw up an error: was not quite correct. The latter does not throw up an error, so it's perfectly *possible* to define a "paragraph" environment to supplant the \paragraph command. Whether it's desirable or not, I leave up to the original questioner! Toby -- Dr T. S. Cubitt Quantum Information Theory group Department of Mathematics University of Bristol United Kingdom email: tsc25 at cantab.net web: www.dr-qubit.org From tsc25 at cantab.net Tue Oct 6 17:25:56 2009 From: tsc25 at cantab.net (Toby Cubitt) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 16:25:56 +0100 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 In-Reply-To: <20091006145504.GB32404@eureca.de> References: <4ACAD8A0.25993.FD25A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> <20091006145504.GB32404@eureca.de> Message-ID: <20091006152556.GH8370@c3po> On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 04:55:04PM +0200, Susan Dittmar wrote: > Quoting Toby Cubitt (tsc25 at cantab.net): > > Really? I just tried \renewenvironment{paragraph}{foo}{bar} and it > > happily defines the new paragraph environment (redefining the \paragraph > > command behind the scenes, with no complaints). > > No complaints only because you did not put it through tests. With \re... > you circumvented exactly the tests the others ran into. But your code will > break a lot of existing examples -- anything using the standard \paragraph > syntax. Probably without any helpful error messages -- TeX will just be > missing \end's. It's much safer to give it a unique name as it differs > quite a bit from the standard \paragraph. You're probably right that giving it a new name is safer. I was just pointing out that the statement: >>> [...] both \newenvironment\paragraph{...}{...} >>> and \renewenvironment\paragraph{...}{...} will throw up an error: was not quite correct. The latter does not throw up an error, so it's perfectly *possible* to define a "paragraph" environment to supplant the \paragraph command. Whether it's desirable or not, I leave up to the original questioner! Toby -- Dr T. S. Cubitt Quantum Information Theory group Department of Mathematics University of Bristol United Kingdom email: tsc25 at cantab.net web: www.dr-qubit.org From joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk Tue Oct 6 17:20:12 2009 From: joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk (Joseph Wright) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:20:12 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB566B.9070409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB566B.9070409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACB602C.3070406@morningstar2.co.uk> Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Suggestions, please ? > ** Phil. Now I've sussed it out, at least using the Cygwin rsync: rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive /cygdrive/c/temp/TeXlive -- Joseph Wright From joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk Tue Oct 6 17:18:05 2009 From: joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk (Joseph Wright) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:18:05 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB5A18.5070901@morningstar2.co.uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB566B.9070409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB5A18.5070901@morningstar2.co.uk> Message-ID: <4ACB5FAD.5070705@morningstar2.co.uk> Joseph Wright wrote: >> rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exc >> lude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror >> >> whereupon I am told : >> >> The source and destination cannot both be remote. >> rsync error: syntax or usage error (code 1) at >> /home/lapo/packaging/rsync-3.0.4- >> 1/src/rsync-3.0.4/main.c(1136) [receiver=3.0.4] >> >> The error message is invariant with the direction of slashes >> in "h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror" Okay, I tried this with rsync linked against Cygwin, and got the same result. I think the issue is the ":" specifying the drive, as it *does* work if I do: rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ /temp/texlive However, that doesn't go from C:\, but from the current directory. I guess this is a rsync think: not really related to TeX Live at all. (I should add that I've had no issues on Windows just downloading the installer via http then letting it "do its thing".) -- Joseph Wright From joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk Tue Oct 6 16:54:16 2009 From: joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk (Joseph Wright) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 15:54:16 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB566B.9070409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB566B.9070409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACB5A18.5070901@morningstar2.co.uk> Philip TAYLOR wrote: > > > Karl Berry wrote: > >> So, if anyone has been waiting to test until things are getting close to >> final ... now would be a good time to give it a shot. Information about >> trying the pretest is at http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html. > > Trying now, for the first time. > > Choosing the "Rsync" method, I am advised to : > > rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* > rsync://somehost/some/path/ /your/local/dir > > which using the information in : > > http://tug.org/texlive/mirmon/ > > and finding no UK mirror, I map to > > rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exc > lude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror > > whereupon I am told : > > The source and destination cannot both be remote. > rsync error: syntax or usage error (code 1) at > /home/lapo/packaging/rsync-3.0.4- > 1/src/rsync-3.0.4/main.c(1136) [receiver=3.0.4] > > The error message is invariant with the direction of slashes > in "h:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror" > > Suggestions, please ? > ** Phil. Can you give us a clue as to your rsync program? On Windows, I only know of it being available as part of cygwin. -- Joseph Wright From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 6 17:57:48 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 16:57:48 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACB68FC.8040209@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Vladimir Volovich has kindly identified the root cause of the problem : > syntax of the destination starting with h: tells rsync that it is a > remote host names "h" (that's how rsync over ssh is used). Vladimir recommended making H: the default drive and then using a simplified path, but that seemed a little kludgy to me (even 'though I am currently doing exactly that, so as to make progress), so after a little thought and experiment I am pleased to be able to report that it is not strictly necessary. In fact, one can use a UNC for the destination, with the proviso that the slashes must be forward slashes, and therefore the following is a solution. rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ /// e.g., rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ //RV-5/H$/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror It would, IMHO, be worth documenting this lest any other Windows users fall into this trap. ** Phil. From eduardo at kalinowski.com.br Tue Oct 6 18:42:23 2009 From: eduardo at kalinowski.com.br (Eduardo M KALINOWSKI) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 13:42:23 -0300 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <20091006134223.585451uwfxykdncw@mail.kalinowski.com.br> On Ter, 06 Out 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > As a work-around, I change directory to H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror > and replace the final element of the previous "Rsync" incantation > with "." Rsync is then prepared to do something, but immediately > reports : > > >> skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.exe" >> skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.exe.sha256" >> skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.sh" >> skipping non-regular file "update-tlmgr-latest.sh.sha256" > > What are "non-regular" files, please ? Without looking at the source directory I cannot tell for sure, but I suppose they are symbolic links[0]. [0]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symlink -- Eduardo M KALINOWSKI eduardo at kalinowski.com.br From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 6 21:21:22 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:21:22 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Philip TAYLOR wrote: > As a work-around, I change directory to H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror > and replace the final element of the previous "Rsync" incantation > with "." OK, that stage is now complete. The next stage is installing, for which the web page says : > Installing > > After downloading as above, you can run the script install-tl (Unix) or install-tl.bat (Windows) to perform the installation: > > * install-tl location -gui text for text (command line) mode; default on Unix. > * install-tl location -gui wizard for severely simplified GUI installation asking only the minimal questions; default on Windows. > * install-tl location -gui perltk for advanced/expert GUI installation with the usual array of options; requires Perl/Tk. > > In each case, the location option must be given for the pretest: install-tl -location http://somehost/some/path ... > The exact somehost/some/path urls to use are the link targets on the texlive-pretest mirmon page. Now there are a couple of problems here. 1) Unless the location to which I mirrored the installation kit is already in my path, "Install-tl[.bat]" won't be found. 2) the option, if I have elected to Rsync the entire installation kit, is presumably /not/ a link target on the TeX Live pre-test mir-mon page, but rather the location on my local system to which I have performed the mirroring. So, assuming that the above assumptions were correct, I did the following : 1) Set default to the location to which I had mirrored the installation kit : H: CD H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror 2) Typed "Install-TL -location . -gui perltk" Unfortunately it then reported "Access denied" : > PATH=H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PE > RL\site\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin;K:\WINXPPRO\system32;K:\WIN > XPPRO;K:\WINXPPRO\System32\Wbem;E:\Layered products\Sonic\MyDVD;K:\PROGRA~1\COMM > ON~1\SONICS~1\;E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy > Access is denied. > Press any key to continue . . . These same symptoms can consistently be replicated by iteratively stripping trailing elements from the incantation, leaving (at end) just "Install-TL" (or "Install-TL.bat"), and also with ".\Install-TL[.bat]". Any new suggestions, please ? ** Phil. From mpg at elzevir.fr Tue Oct 6 22:15:00 2009 From: mpg at elzevir.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Manuel_P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=) Date: Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:15:00 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> Philip TAYLOR a ?crit : > 1) Unless the location to which I mirrored the installation > kit is already in my path, "Install-tl[.bat]" won't be found. > You need to cd to this directory, or open the folder in explorer and double-click the file here. I thought windows users were used to do that. > 2) the option, if I have elected to Rsync the > entire installation kit, is presumably /not/ a link target > on the TeX Live pre-test mir-mon page, but rather the location > on my local system to which I have performed the mirroring. > Sure. > Unfortunately it then reported "Access denied" : > I have no idea about this one. Which version of windows? Manuel. From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Wed Oct 7 01:41:38 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 01:41:38 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB68FC.8040209@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB68FC.8040209@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <19147.54706.399764.989530@zaphod.ms25.net> On 6 October 2009 Philip TAYLOR wrote: > In fact, one can use a UNC for the destination, with the proviso > that the slashes must be forward slashes, and therefore the > following is a solution. > > rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* > rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ /// Hi Phil, I assume that you don't want to type this on the command line each time you want to update. A more convenient solution is to write a batch file. ------------------------------------------------------------------ @echo off cd c:\some\directory rsync -r --delete --exclude=2008 --exclude=mactex* rsync://guiling.fr/texlive/ ./relative/path/to/target/dir ------------------------------------------------------------------ Because you first "cd" to a particular directory, you can use relative paths in order to avoid the colon in the rsync argument list. On 6 October 2009 Yury G. Kudryashov wrote: > Why haven't you contacted Synametrics? It seems that their rsync is > either buggy or needs another syntax. I think that we should acknowledge that there is a Windows port at all. rsync was written for Unix. Porting it to Windows is a pain because Windows is not POSIX compliant. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From urkud.urkud at gmail.com Tue Oct 6 17:11:31 2009 From: urkud.urkud at gmail.com (Yury G. Kudryashov) Date: Tue, 6 Oct 2009 19:11:31 +0400 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACB5C01.2040401@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB5A18.5070901@morningstar2.co.uk> <4ACB5C01.2040401@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <200910061911.38183.urkud.urkud@gmail.com> ? ????????? ?? 6 ??????? 2009 19:02:25 ????? Philip TAYLOR ???????: > This is the Synametrics port of Rsync, supplied > as a part of their DeltaCopy package, and as used > by me for mirroring TeX Live 2008 last year. Why haven't you contacted Synametrics? It seems that their rsync is either buggy or needs another syntax. -- Yury G. Kudryashov, mailto: urkud.urkud at gmail.com -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 10:04:17 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:04:17 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <19147.54706.399764.989530@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB68FC.8040209@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19147.54706.399764.989530@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <4ACC4B81.3020709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Dear Reinhard (copy all) -- Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > A more convenient solution is to write a batch file. Agreed, but (a) I don't like batch files (they replace thought with action : rarely a good idea, IMHO !), and (b) my point was rather that the present documentation is inadequate, not to say seriously misleading, for any na\i ve Windows user wishing to help with the testing of TL 2009. Once I can get to the point of being able to test myself (I am still stuck at the point of "Access is denied"), I will be more than happy to offer better documentation which takes the needs of Windows' users properly into account. In the meantime, I have implemented a Windows' shortcut which performs the Rsynching, taking advantage of the fact that Windows' shortcuts support the concept of a "Start-in" directory. I have also added the "--progress" qualifier so as to gain a better insight into what exactly is happening. ** Phil. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 10:07:00 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:07:00 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <19147.54706.399764.989530@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB68FC.8040209@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19147.54706.399764.989530@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <4ACC4C24.5060408@Rhul.Ac.Uk> New problem (occurred at end of mirroring) > archive/wadalab.tar.xz > 17771572 100% 10.32MB/s 0:00:01 (xfer#6963, to-check=1711/7104) > ERROR: archive/wadalab.tar.xz failed verification -- update discarded. > > sent 6172115 bytes received 14355042 bytes 41934.95 bytes/sec > total size is 1180867730 speedup is 57.53 > rsync error: some files/attrs were not transferred (see previous errors) (code 2 > 3) at /home/lapo/packaging/rsync-3.0.4-1/src/rsync-3.0.4/main.c(1506) [generator > =3.0.4] "Access is denied" error remains a major impasse. ** Phil. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 10:15:10 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:15:10 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> Message-ID: <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard wrote: > Philip TAYLOR a ?crit : >> Unfortunately it then reported "Access is denied" : >> > I have no idea about this one. Which version of windows? Further to this, and with brain in more appropriate gear (the last two days have been beset with hardware failures, which tend to drive out rational thought), I have modified "Install-TL.bat" to commence "@Echo on" rather than "@Echo off" as supplied, and can now report that the problem appears to result from the first attempt to launch PERL : > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>rem Start installer > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>path > PATH=H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PE > RL\site\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin;K:\WINXPPRO\system32;K:\WIN > XPPRO;K:\WINXPPRO\System32\Wbem;E:\Layered products\Sonic\MyDVD;K:\PROGRA~1\COMM > ON~1\SONICS~1\;E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" > Access is denied. ** Phil. From joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk Wed Oct 7 10:19:57 2009 From: joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk (Joseph Wright) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:19:57 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC4B81.3020709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB68FC.8040209@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19147.54706.399764.989530@zaphod.ms25.net> <4ACC4B81.3020709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACC4F2D.1090806@morningstar2.co.uk> Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Dear Reinhard (copy all) -- > > Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > >> A more convenient solution is to write a batch file. > > Agreed, but (a) I don't like batch files (they replace > thought with action : rarely a good idea, IMHO !), and > (b) my point was rather that the present documentation > is inadequate, not to say seriously misleading, for > any na\i ve Windows user wishing to help with the testing > of TL 2009. Once I can get to the point of being able > to test myself (I am still stuck at the point of "Access > is denied"), I will be more than happy to offer better > documentation which takes the needs of Windows' users > properly into account. I'd imagine that most Windows users will take my approach: download the stand-alone installer and user that. rsync is already quite "odd" for Windows people, I'd say. However, you're right that the documentation should at least try to give useful advice! -- Joseph Wright From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 10:32:12 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:32:12 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" >> Access is denied. A further check shews that it is PERL that is the problem rather than "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl", since just "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl" is sufficient to trigger the "Access is denied" message. Setting default to that directory and attempting to run PERL from there produces exactly the same symptoms. ** Phil. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 10:41:35 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 09:41:35 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Here is the output from CACLS : > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin>cacls perl.exe > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin\perl.exe RV-5\Chaa006:(special access:) > STANDARD_RIGHTS_ALL > DELETE > READ_CONTROL > WRITE_DAC > WRITE_OWNER > SYNCHRONIZE > STANDARD_RIGHTS_REQUIRED > FILE_GENERIC_READ > FILE_GENERIC_WRITE > FILE_GENERIC_EXECUTE > FILE_READ_DATA > FILE_WRITE_DATA > FILE_APPEND_DATA > FILE_READ_EA > FILE_WRITE_EA > FILE_EXECUTE > FILE_READ_ATTRIBUTES > FILE_WRITE_ATTRIBUTES > > RV-5\None:R > Everyone:R whilst here (for contrast) is the output of the same command for my normal "ActiveState" PERL which does work : > E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin>cacls perl.exe > E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin\perl.exe BUILTIN\Administrators:F > Everyone:R ** Phil. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 11:13:12 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 10:13:12 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ACC5BA8.9050207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Acting on instinct, I deleted "perl.exe.manifest" from H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin; TeX Live PERL now runs, for the first time :-) Sadly, we are by no means out of the water. The installation now aborts as follows (echo remains enabled) : > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>path > PATH=H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PE > RL\site\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin;K:\WINXPPRO\system32;K:\WIN > XPPRO;K:\WINXPPRO\System32\Wbem;E:\Layered products\Sonic\MyDVD;K:\PROGRA~1\COMM > ON~1\SONICS~1\;E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" -local . -gui > perltk > Can't load 'H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\lib/auto/Win32/API/API.dll' for > module Win32::API: load_file:Access is denied at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\ > tlperl\lib/DynaLoader.pm line 230. > at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo.pm line 130 > Compilation failed in require at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo. > pm line 130. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWin > Goo.pm line 141. > Compilation failed in require at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl line 62. > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>pause ** Phil. From samuel.lelievre.tex at free.fr Wed Oct 7 11:22:47 2009 From: samuel.lelievre.tex at free.fr (samuel.lelievre.tex at free.fr) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:22:47 +0200 Subject: [texhax] memoir package, \begin{verse}[\versewidth], poem title Message-ID: <1254907367.4acc5de7e2070@imp.free.fr> --- 2009-10-03 Mica Semrick --- From: Mica Semrick To: texhax at tug.org Date: Sat, 3 Oct 2009 03:43:34 -0700 Subject: [texhax] memoir package, \begin{verse}[\versewidth], poem title I am using the memoir package to try and typeset some poems, and I am running into a slight problem. I am using the verse environment with the \versewidth command to center the poem. I would like to have the title of the poem flush with the body of the poem. How would I do this? This is where I am currently stuck in the code: \documentclass[12pt,oneside]{memoir} \pagestyle{plain} \chapterstyle{dash} \renewcommand{\PoemTitlefont}{% \normalfont\sffamily\hspace{\vleftmargin}} %Remove centering from the poem title \begin{document} \settowidth{\versewidth}{this is a pretty long line in my poem} \PlainPoemTitle \PoemTitle{My Great Poem Title} \begin{verse}[\versewidth] this is the body of my poem\\ and its pretty bad\\ please help me with my problem\\ and i will be quite glad\\ and: his is a pretty long line in my poem\\ \end{verse} \newpage \end{document} Any help would be greatly appreciated, I've been working on this for a few days with no results. Best, Mica --- end quoted email --- Hi Mica, If I understand your question correctly, I would just change the redefinition of \PoemTitlefont in your example to the following: \renewcommand{\PoemTitlefont}{% \normalfont\sffamily\flushleft% Remove centering from poem title \hspace*{0.5\linewidth}\hspace*{-0.5\versewidth}} Best, Samuel From preining at logic.at Wed Oct 7 12:46:17 2009 From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:46:17 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC5BA8.9050207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC5BA8.9050207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <20091007104617.GA17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> Hi Phil, (taking some ccsout) On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" -local . -gui >> perltk Why don't you do: h: cd \tex\live\2009\mirror install-tl ... or h:\tex\live\2009\mirror\install-tl.bat ... BTW, what is that -local . an argument for? It is AFAIR not an argument that is supported by the installer. Best wishes Norbert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Norbert Preining Associate Professor JAIST Japan Advanced Institute of Science and Technology preining at jaist.ac.jp Vienna University of Technology preining at logic.at Debian Developer (Debian TeX Task Force) preining at debian.org gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ARDSLIGNISH (adj.) Adjective which describes the behaviour of Sellotape when you are tired. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 12:48:56 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 11:48:56 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <20091007104617.GA17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC5BA8.9050207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <20091007104617.GA17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> Message-ID: <4ACC7218.2050709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Norbert Preining wrote: > BTW, what is that -local . an argument for? It is AFAIR not an argument > that is supported by the installer. The "-local" appears to be a typo (I haven't checked the original) but in reality it reads "-location .", since the pre-test documentation states that a must be given, and gives the syntax of a as "-location ". ** Phil. From preining at logic.at Wed Oct 7 12:59:33 2009 From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 12:59:33 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC7218.2050709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC5BA8.9050207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <20091007104617.GA17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <4ACC7218.2050709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <20091007105933.GC17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > The "-local" appears to be a typo (I haven't checked the original) > but in reality it reads "-location .", since the pre-test documentation Yes, or -repository (as it is suggested now) or even -repo Best wishes Norbert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Norbert Preining Associate Professor JAIST Japan Advanced Institute of Science and Technology preining at jaist.ac.jp Vienna University of Technology preining at logic.at Debian Developer (Debian TeX Task Force) preining at debian.org gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- AMERSHAM (n.) The sneeze which tickles but never comes. (Thought to derive from the Metropolitan Line tube station of the same name where the rails always rattle but the train never arrives.) --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 13:02:49 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:02:49 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <20091007105933.GC17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC5BA8.9050207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <20091007104617.GA17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <4ACC7218.2050709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <20091007105933.GC17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> Message-ID: <4ACC7559.6070307@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Norbert Preining wrote: > On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: >> The "-local" appears to be a typo (I haven't checked the original) >> but in reality it reads "-location .", since the pre-test documentation > > Yes, or > -repository > (as it is suggested now) or even > -rep OK, but these are not mentioned at all at http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html which is the only documentation to which potential pre-testers are referred ... ** Phil. From mpg at elzevir.fr Wed Oct 7 13:06:45 2009 From: mpg at elzevir.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Manuel_P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:06:45 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC4F2D.1090806@morningstar2.co.uk> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB68FC.8040209@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19147.54706.399764.989530@zaphod.ms25.net> <4ACC4B81.3020709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC4F2D.1090806@morningstar2.co.uk> Message-ID: <4ACC7645.50903@elzevir.fr> Joseph Wright a ?crit : > I'd imagine that most Windows users will take my approach: download the > stand-alone installer and user that. rsync is already quite "odd" for > Windows people, I'd say. I agree. > However, you're right that the documentation > should at least try to give useful advice! Well, though improved documentation can never hurt, I'd like to point out that pretesting, and especially using the rsync approach, is not really meant for the "typical" user. Manuel. From preining at logic.at Wed Oct 7 13:10:00 2009 From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 13:10:00 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC7559.6070307@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC5BA8.9050207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <20091007104617.GA17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <4ACC7218.2050709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <20091007105933.GC17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> <4ACC7559.6070307@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <20091007111000.GI17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> On Mi, 07 Okt 2009, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > OK, but these are not mentioned at all at Irrelevant, they are all synonyms. Best wishes Norbert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Norbert Preining Associate Professor JAIST Japan Advanced Institute of Science and Technology preining at jaist.ac.jp Vienna University of Technology preining at logic.at Debian Developer (Debian TeX Task Force) preining at debian.org gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- BURWASH The pleasurable cool sloosh of puddle water over the toes of your gumboots. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 7 13:10:09 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:10:09 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <20091007104617.GA17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB98B2.6080508@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACBA544.7090404@elzevir.fr> <4ACC4E0E.4040409@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC520C.6030007@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC543F.9090505@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC5BA8.9050207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <20091007104617.GA17109@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> Message-ID: <4ACC7711.8090909@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Norbert Preining wrote: > BTW, what is that -local . an argument for? It is AFAIR not an argument > that is supported by the installer. I cannot be sure that there was never a time when I typed "local" as a Freudian slip for "location", but I have just repeated the test (manifest file deleted, echo on) with this incantation : > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>Install-TL -location . -gui perltk and the results are as before : > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>rem Start installer > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>path > PATH=H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PE > RL\site\bin;E:\Layered products\ActiveState\PERL\bin;K:\WINXPPRO\system32;K:\WIN > XPPRO;K:\WINXPPRO\System32\Wbem;E:\Layered products\Sonic\MyDVD;K:\PROGRA~1\COMM > ON~1\SONICS~1\;E:\Layered products\Synametrics Technologies\DeltaCopy > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>perl "H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl" -location . -g > ui perltk > Can't load 'H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\tlperl\lib/auto/Win32/API/API.dll' for > module Win32::API: load_file:Access is denied at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\tlpkg\ > tlperl\lib/DynaLoader.pm line 230. > at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo.pm line 130 > Compilation failed in require at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWinGoo. > pm line 130. > BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at H:/TeX/Live/2009/Mirror/tlpkg/TeXLive/TLWin > Goo.pm line 141. > Compilation failed in require at H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror\install-tl line 62. > > H:\TeX\Live\2009\Mirror>pause ** Phil. From christer.thorn at jth.hj.se Wed Oct 7 13:20:02 2009 From: christer.thorn at jth.hj.se (=?UTF-8?B?Q2hyaXN0ZXIgVGjDtnJu?=) Date: Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:20:02 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Bold for sf and semi-bold for rm Message-ID: <4ACC7962.8050900@jth.hj.se> Hi. I'm using a roman font, where I want the bold weight to use the semi-bold font. But I want the sans serif bold to use its regular bold! Is there an easy way? Currently I use: \renewcommand{\rmdefault}{mbv} % A Baskerville as rm \renewcommand{\bfdefault}{sb} % Use semibold instead of bold \usepackage{helvet} % Helvetica as sf This causes the roman to be semibold and the sans serif be neither bold nor semi-bold. Is there a "\bfdefault_for_rm_only"? Regards, -- Christer Th?rn christer.thorn(a)jth.hj.se +46 (0)36-10 15 92 From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Wed Oct 7 21:27:45 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Wed, 7 Oct 2009 21:27:45 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] tl09 release status: coming up In-Reply-To: <4ACC7645.50903@elzevir.fr> References: <200909222327.n8MNR6116694@f7.net> <4ACB60CF.6030406@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACB68FC.8040209@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19147.54706.399764.989530@zaphod.ms25.net> <4ACC4B81.3020709@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4ACC4F2D.1090806@morningstar2.co.uk> <4ACC7645.50903@elzevir.fr> Message-ID: <19148.60337.604400.889853@zaphod.ms25.net> On 7 October 2009 Manuel P?gouri?-Gonnard wrote: > Joseph Wright a ?crit : >> However, you're right that the documentation >> should at least try to give useful advice! > > Well, though improved documentation can never hurt, I'd like to > point out that pretesting, and especially using the rsync approach, > is not really meant for the "typical" user. Yes, it's not TeX Live specific, but it would be very nice to have this information on the rsync-for-Windows download page. Maybe someone is willing to contact Synametrics in order to make such a suggestion... Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From news3 at nililand.de Thu Oct 8 11:08:54 2009 From: news3 at nililand.de (Ulrike Fischer) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:08:54 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Bold for sf and semi-bold for rm References: <4ACC7962.8050900@jth.hj.se> Message-ID: <1qnox31kyhfhu.dlg@nililand.de> Am Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:20:02 +0200 schrieb Christer Th?rn: > Hi. > > I'm using a roman font, where I want the bold weight to use the > semi-bold font. But I want the sans serif bold to use its regular bold! > Is there an easy way? > > Currently I use: > \renewcommand{\rmdefault}{mbv} % A Baskerville as rm > \renewcommand{\bfdefault}{sb} % Use semibold instead of bold > \usepackage{helvet} % Helvetica as sf > > This causes the roman to be semibold and the sans serif be neither bold > nor semi-bold. Is there a "\bfdefault_for_rm_only"? No, but you can add substituation rules for helvet so that it use b when sb is called: \documentclass{article} \usepackage[ansinew]{inputenc} \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} \usepackage{helvet} \renewcommand{\bfdefault}{sb} \sffamily\selectfont%to load t1phv.fd \DeclareFontShape{T1}{phv}{sb}{n}{<->ssub * phv/b/n}{} \DeclareFontShape{T1}{phv}{sb}{sc}{<->ssub * phv/b/sc}{} \DeclareFontShape{T1}{phv}{sb}{sl}{<->ssub * phv/b/sl}{} \DeclareFontShape{T1}{phv}{sb}{it}{<->ssub * phv/b/it}{} %etc for other encodings like TS1 \begin{document} abc \sffamily abc \bfseries abc \end{document} You can naturally also generate local fd-file for phv and add the rules there. -- Ulrike Fischer From Bryan.Lepore at umassmed.edu Thu Oct 8 17:52:41 2009 From: Bryan.Lepore at umassmed.edu (Bryan W. Lepore) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 11:52:41 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] Google and BibTeX Message-ID: fyi Google scholar has "import citation into BibTeX" option in Preferences. hth -bryan From prstanley at ntlworld.com Fri Oct 9 02:53:12 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 01:53:12 +0100 Subject: [texhax] the British Pound Sign Message-ID: <20091009005657.LRRF2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks, can't find any info on this. Any idea what the macro for the British pound symbol is? Cheers Paul From speter at mac.com Fri Oct 9 03:34:54 2009 From: speter at mac.com (Steve Peter) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 21:34:54 -0400 Subject: [texhax] the British Pound Sign In-Reply-To: <20091009005657.LRRF2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091009005657.LRRF2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4FBD03D4-DACB-436B-A0B4-AEA396B8F3E6@mac.com> On Oct 8, 2009, at 8:53 PM, P. R. Stanley wrote: > Hi folks, > can't find any info on this. Any idea what the macro for the British > pound symbol is? In LaTeX, \pounds or \textsterling should do the trick. (In Plain TeX, the pound symbol is in the italic $ slot.) From r.turner at auckland.ac.nz Fri Oct 9 03:45:34 2009 From: r.turner at auckland.ac.nz (Rolf Turner) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:45:34 +1300 Subject: [texhax] the British Pound Sign In-Reply-To: <20091009005657.LRRF2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091009005657.LRRF2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: On 9/10/2009, at 1:53 PM, P. R. Stanley wrote: > Hi folks, > can't find any info on this. Can't believe you've looked very hard ... > Any idea what the macro for the British > pound symbol is? \pounds (p. 40 in Lamport) Or, for instance, http://omega.albany.edu:8008/Symbols.html cheers, Rolf Turner ###################################################################### Attention: This e-mail message is privileged and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient please delete the message and notify the sender. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author. This e-mail has been scanned and cleared by MailMarshal www.marshalsoftware.com ###################################################################### From adimar at utp.edu.pl Thu Oct 8 14:59:27 2009 From: adimar at utp.edu.pl (Adam M) Date: Thu, 8 Oct 2009 14:59:27 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Page number end of chapter. Message-ID: Hi, I'm have small (big for me) problem with extract number ends page any of article in my document. I update this information only when I use \maketitle command. In bellow code start page number work OK, but do not know how get information about end number page. I know that the next start page number is a bigger one than end page numbers. \def\@oddhead{% \underline{\parbox[b]{10.5cm}{% pp. \arabic{@ppstart}-\arabic{@ppstop}}}\hfill\thepage } ... \newcounter{@ppstart} \newcounter{@ppstop} ... \renewcommand{\maketitle}{% \setcounter{@ppstart}{\thepage} \setcounter{@ppstop}{???????????????????} } Adam M -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it Fri Oct 9 10:03:03 2009 From: philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it (Philip G. Ratcliffe) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 10:03:03 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Page number end of chapter. In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <42099861A1084A0AAEB749B16A624736@PGR1> > I'm have small (big for me) problem with extract number ends > page any of article in my document. I update this information > only when I use \maketitle command. > In bellow code start page number work OK, but do not know how > get information about end number page. I know that the next > start page number is a bigger one than end page numbers. Try looking at the "laspage" package. Cheers, Phil From cdep.illabout at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 12:08:38 2009 From: cdep.illabout at gmail.com (cdep.illabout at gmail.com) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 06:08:38 -0400 Subject: [texhax] Unexpected behaviour with spacing in moderncv class Message-ID: <70732fb40910090308s15205de8la09a9722be46b85f@mail.gmail.com> When using the moderncv class, the resulting pdf has an unexpectedly large gap underneath the very first section heading. It only happens when \quote is not defined. It seems to happen depending on whether or not I leave an empty space between the \maketitle command and the very first \section command. If I do not leave an empty space between the two, there is an (ugly) large gap between the first section heading and the cvline underneath it. If there is an empty space between \maketitle command and the first \section command, it looks fine. To illustrate exactly what I mean, I have attached four latex files and the four resulting pdfs, with all possible combinations of (1) a blank space or no blank space between \maketitle and \section, and (2) \quote being defined or undefined. Am I naive for expecting that these will all come out the same, and not realizing there may be differences? Or is this a problem with the moderncv class? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: no_quote_no_space-ugly.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 122948 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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Name: yes_quote_yes_space-fine.pdf Type: application/pdf Size: 124170 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: yes_quote_yes_space-fine.tex Type: application/x-tex Size: 588 bytes Desc: not available URL: From uwe.lueck at web.de Fri Oct 9 16:11:44 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 16:11:44 +0200 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 379 In-Reply-To: <20091006145504.GB32404@eureca.de> References: <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> <4ACAD8A0.25993.FD25A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091009155925.028aca20@pop3.web.de> At 16:55 06.10.09, Susan Dittmar wrote: >Quoting Toby Cubitt (tsc25 at cantab.net): > > Really? I just tried \renewenvironment{paragraph}{foo}{bar} and it > > happily defines the new paragraph environment (redefining the \paragraph > > command behind the scenes, with no complaints). > >No complaints only because you did not put it through tests. With \re... >you circumvented exactly the tests the others ran into. The original subject (disguised by hh) was "renewenviroment paragraph", so why \newenvironment? (I answered under the original subject.) >But your code will break a lot of existing examples -- anything using the >standard \paragraph >syntax. Which examples? Who uses LaTeX's \paragraph? >Probably without any helpful error messages -- TeX will just be >missing \end's. It's much safer to give it a unique name as it differs >quite a bit from the standard \paragraph. After \newenvironment{paragraph}{...}{...}, \endparagraph is defined, so what? However, I guessed that all of this is irrelevant since the OP seemed to have the mislead idea that \renewcommand{paragraph}{...}{...} changed the appearance of paragraphs. -- Uwe. From crebecca at uchicago.edu Fri Oct 9 18:56:01 2009 From: crebecca at uchicago.edu (crebecca at uchicago.edu) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:56:01 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [texhax] modify \setnumber for double page numbering in ledmac? In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091009155925.028aca20@pop3.web.de> References: <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> <4ACAD8A0.25993.FD25A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091006123728.GC8370@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091009155925.028aca20@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <20091009115601.BTZ36679@m4500-03.uchicago.edu> In the ledmac package, for \article, I need a modification to allow two sets of page numbers. The simple fix is two counters running at once. Is there a way to tweak \setcounter{page}{startnumbering} to add another counter? Any reasonable format is fine, like 79(200) (at the bottom of the page). The second set of page numbers can also appear elsewhere on the page (upper right). With thanks as always, Rebecca -------------------------- Rebecca Chung crebecca at uchicago.edu if you receive this message in error, please notify crebecca at uchicago.edu and support at uchicago.edu From prstanley at ntlworld.com Fri Oct 9 19:03:27 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 18:03:27 +0100 Subject: [texhax] quoting date Message-ID: <20091009170313.DCR13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi I'm inserting dates in a table in the month abbrev date[st|nd|th] format, e.g. Oct. 9th. Question is, is there a macro for presenting date in above format? Is there one for presenting date in the day/month/year, e.g. 09/10/09 format? I suppose what I'm really asking is what visual difference these macros would make to the date string. Any pointers would be most appreciated. Cheers Paul From swami at mun.ca Fri Oct 9 19:27:24 2009 From: swami at mun.ca (P. P. Narayanaswami) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:57:24 -0230 Subject: [texhax] Localtexmf and texmmf directories in MikTex 2.8 Message-ID: <1255109244.4acf727cd32c2@webmail.mun.ca> Hi: I recently upgraded to MikTex2.8 under Windows Vista. I wanted to place some personal fiont and style files in the "localtexmf" directory (where we usually place them). To my surprise, neither the "localtexmf" nor the "texmf" directory was availabe there. So, in which directiory (exact location in WIndows Vista) in MikTeX2.8 shoould I place my personal font files and style, so MikTeX will see them after I refresh the database? From uwe.lueck at web.de Fri Oct 9 20:08:24 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Fri, 09 Oct 2009 20:08:24 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Localtexmf and texmmf directories in MikTex 2.8 In-Reply-To: <1255109244.4acf727cd32c2@webmail.mun.ca> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091009200638.028c10c0@pop3.web.de> Please consult the MiKTeX list for problems with upgrading to v2.8: List-Id: "A place for MiKTeX users to discuss MiKTeX related questions." List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , You are not alone! Best, Uwe. At 19:27 09.10.09, P. P. Narayanaswami wrote: >Hi: >I recently upgraded to MikTex2.8 under Windows Vista. I wanted to place >some personal fiont and style files in the "localtexmf" directory (where >we usually place them). To my surprise, neither the "localtexmf" nor the >"texmf" directory was availabe there. So, in which directiory (exact >location in WIndows Vista) in MikTeX2.8 shoould I place my personal font files >and style, so MikTeX will see them after I refresh the database? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From adrianlopezgarciadelomana at gmail.com Fri Oct 9 11:01:42 2009 From: adrianlopezgarciadelomana at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Adri=E1n_L=F3pez_Garc=EDa_de_Lomana?=) Date: Fri, 9 Oct 2009 11:01:42 +0200 Subject: [texhax] glossaries order linked words Message-ID: <8E19C8E4-E860-40D9-A9F8-568BD3B11BD1@gmail.com> Hello community, I'm working with the package glossaries \usepackage[style=altlist,order=letter]{glossaries} and I don't know how to solve a minor problem. Some of the glossary terms are referenced to an internet site: \newglossaryentry{Python}{ name=\href{http://www.python.org/}{Python}, description={\LDPython}, text={Python}} and when I create the glossaries, the ordering is not the one I would like. I would like the term "Python" to be ordered by the letter P, but (I suppose) it takes the first characters of "name", in this case "\", for the ordering and all terms that contain the "\href" on the name are ordered first. Some ideas of how could I solve this? Many thanks for your time and help, a -- Adri?n L?pez Garc?a de Lomana http://sites.google.com/site/adrianlopezgarciadelomana/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Sat Oct 10 14:56:53 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 09:56:53 -0300 Subject: [texhax] modify \setnumber for double page numbering in Message-ID: <4AD05A65.24512.107B0D2@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Hello, to me seems that the point is to change the apperance of \thepage. You have all the freedoms you want, just define them: \def\thepage{\arabic{page}(\arabic{othercounter})} hh From news3 at nililand.de Sat Oct 10 11:28:39 2009 From: news3 at nililand.de (Ulrike Fischer) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 11:28:39 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Localtexmf and texmmf directories in MikTex 2.8 References: <1255109244.4acf727cd32c2@webmail.mun.ca> Message-ID: <1n8deu3cf79v4.dlg@nililand.de> Am Fri, 9 Oct 2009 14:57:24 -0230 schrieb P. P. Narayanaswami: > Hi: > I recently upgraded to MikTex2.8 under Windows Vista. I wanted to place > some personal fiont and style files in the "localtexmf" directory (where > we usually place them). To my surprise, neither the "localtexmf" nor the > "texmf" directory was availabe there. So, in which directiory (exact > location in WIndows Vista) in MikTeX2.8 shoould I place my personal font files > and style, so MikTeX will see them after I refresh the database? create somewhere (outside miktex) a folder "whateveryouwant-texmf" with a small TDS substructure (e.g. a subfolder tex), then add "whateveryouwant-texmf" as a new root in miktex settings. You can then fill this texmf-tree with your files. Attention if you have a multi user setup: starting with 2.8. such roots can be set up also on a per-user basis and the maintenance tools exist as "user" variant and as "admin" variant. So you will have to test a bit to find out how to update the fndb of your new root. http://docs.miktex.org/2.8/relnotes/ -- Ulrike Fischer From epubbala at yahoo.com Sat Oct 10 11:25:07 2009 From: epubbala at yahoo.com (jack) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 02:25:07 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [texhax] dcolumn package In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <976006.34488.qm@web110308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear TeX Users, ? When? i have used dcolumn.sty file in the table part my sans serif font changed to roman font. (Example :?Roman font is Times and Sans-Serif font is Helvetica). Anyone please advise how do change roman to sans-serif font when using dcolumn package. ? Thanks in advance. ? Thanks and Regards,b bala -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From n.talbot at uea.ac.uk Sat Oct 10 16:03:57 2009 From: n.talbot at uea.ac.uk (Dr Nicola L C Talbot) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:03:57 +0100 Subject: [texhax] glossaries order linked words In-Reply-To: <8E19C8E4-E860-40D9-A9F8-568BD3B11BD1@gmail.com> References: <8E19C8E4-E860-40D9-A9F8-568BD3B11BD1@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD0944D.2020604@uea.ac.uk> Adri?n L?pez Garc?a de Lomana wrote: > I'm working with the package glossaries > > \usepackage[style=altlist,order=letter]{glossaries} > > and I don't know how to solve a minor problem. Some of the > glossary terms are referenced to an internet site: > > \newglossaryentry{Python}{ > name=\href{http://www.python.org/}{Python}, > description={\LDPython}, > text={Python}} > > and when I create the glossaries, the ordering is not the > one I would like. I would like the term "Python" to be ordered > by the letter P, but (I suppose) it takes the first characters of > "name", in this case "\", for the ordering and all terms that > contain the "\href" on the name are ordered first. Some ideas of > how could I solve this? Use the sort key: \newglossaryentry{Python}{ sort=Python, name=\href{http://www.python.org/}{Python}, description={\LDPython}, text={Python}} Regards Nicola Talbot -- http://theoval.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~nlct/ From n.talbot at uea.ac.uk Sat Oct 10 16:12:48 2009 From: n.talbot at uea.ac.uk (Dr Nicola L C Talbot) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 15:12:48 +0100 Subject: [texhax] quoting date In-Reply-To: <20091009170313.DCR13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091009170313.DCR13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4AD09660.7090800@uea.ac.uk> > I'm inserting dates in a table in the month abbrev date[st|nd|th] > format, e.g. Oct. 9th. > Question is, is there a macro for presenting date in above format? > Is there one for presenting date in the day/month/year, e.g. 09/10/09 format? > I suppose what I'm really asking is what visual difference these > macros would make to the date string. > Any pointers would be most appreciated. The datetime package provides various date formats, and you can define your own format if none of the predefined ones are appropriate. The current date is, as usual, produced with \today, but it follows the same format as \formatdate{day}{month}{year} which is used to format a specific date. For example: \ddmmyyyydate \today. \formatdate{9}{10}{2009}. would produce: 10/10/2009. 09/10/2009. Regards Nicola Talbot -- http://theoval.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~nlct/ From vivrii at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 02:51:13 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 20:51:13 -0400 Subject: [texhax] ntheorem hacking Message-ID: <19af81400910101751l639e8408nbf0d60354991e60@mail.gmail.com> One of my colleagues wants to use [framed]{ntheorem} albeit does not like behavior of framedtheorem braking pages: then each portion is in framebox. Instead he wants that in this case the horizontal rules on the bottom of the first page and on the top of the second page disappear. Is any implementation of this? Alternatively, how to make a framedtheorem with only vertical rules ? Thank you in advance Victor -- ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sun Oct 11 03:07:06 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 02:07:06 +0100 Subject: [texhax] formatting the time in datetime Message-ID: <20091011010708.LJAL13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi Is it possible to format time via the datetime package, similar to \formatdate{d}{m}{y}? Thanks, Paul From n.talbot at uea.ac.uk Sun Oct 11 11:43:41 2009 From: n.talbot at uea.ac.uk (Dr Nicola L C Talbot) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 10:43:41 +0100 Subject: [texhax] formatting the time in datetime In-Reply-To: <20091011010708.LJAL13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091011010708.LJAL13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4AD1A8CD.8020608@uea.ac.uk> P. R. Stanley wrote: > Is it possible to format time via the datetime package, similar to > \formatdate{d}{m}{y}? There isn't a time equivalent to \formatdate at the moment. I'll add something into the next version. Regards Nicola Talbot -- http://theoval.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~nlct/ From daleif at imf.au.dk Sun Oct 11 12:42:35 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 12:42:35 +0200 Subject: [texhax] dcolumn package In-Reply-To: <976006.34488.qm@web110308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <976006.34488.qm@web110308.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <4AD1B69B.2030808@imf.au.dk> jack wrote: > Dear TeX Users, > > When i have used dcolumn.sty file in the table part my sans serif font > changed to roman font. (Example : Roman font is Times and Sans-Serif > font is Helvetica). Anyone please advise how do change roman to > sans-serif font when using dcolumn package. > > Thanks in advance. > > Thanks and Regards,b > bala > are you sure? because dcolumn works in mathmode, thus it is using the math font instead not the text font. It might be a limitation of dcolumn, so I'd recommend that you had a look at the siunitx package, which apart from providing unit, also provides a feature similar to dcolumn but much more configurable, and I think I saw a section in the manual that solved your problem. /daleif > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From uwe.lueck at web.de Sun Oct 11 11:38:08 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 11:38:08 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Specifying baseline-to-baseline skip in TeX In-Reply-To: <499426B2.5020706@open.ac.uk> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091011103350.02453140@pop3.web.de> While Jonathan (below) addressed baseline-to-baseline skips on /title pages/, I am encountering the same problem with /sectioning/: The /designer/ has specified the skip from the last \chapter baseline to the next baseline. A simple \vskip(glue) closing the chapter macros [apart from \@afterheading] would result in a baseline-to-baseline distance of (glue)+(b) where (b) is the \baselineskip associated with either \normalsize or \section, I don't know ... [with ordinary text in adjacent lines only; I am using round parentheses for meta-variables here because I know that some HTML-mail-program likes to suppress the more natural ASCII imitation of angle brackets]. I am thinking of A. redefining [the /next/] \section so it makes up for the difference of the \normalsize and \section \baselineskip's and tweaking of \everypar to get back the usual behaviour of \section when \chapter is /not/ immediately followed by \section; B. asking the designer to specify /white space/ instead of baseline-to-baseline skip instead [which may matter more anyway from a visual point of view, \nointerlineskip \vkip..., not sure about descenders]. For a general solution, font size switches [at least for \large etc.] might be redefined to replace an earlier vertical \lastskip by \lastskip-(b) where (b) is the \baselineskip associated with the font size [assuming font switches occur at starting paragraphs only; storing \lastskip and substracting \baselineskip, \nobreak\vskip-\lastskip etc.; bad if section number font size is different to that of title]. Or one could use such variants of font size switches [\large*, ...; \fontsize*] on title pages and in sectioning definitions. -- Uwe. At 15:40 12.02.09, Jonathan Fine wrote: >Hello > >I posted this earlier today to the TYPO-L list. Any contributions welcome. > >Was: Re: What's wrong with TeX (posted to the TYPO-L list) > >Don Hosek wrote (in April 1995) >=== >It's also difficult to get tracking (really necessary with non-optically >sized fonts) and to do baseline-to-baseline skips. >=== > >I'm needing to write some TeX macros for title pages, and being able to >specify baseline-to-baseline skips would be a great help. > >Does anyone here know of work done on this topic since Don's original post? > > >Jonathan > >--------------------------------- >The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an >exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC >038302). From adrianlopezgarciadelomana at gmail.com Sun Oct 11 15:48:10 2009 From: adrianlopezgarciadelomana at gmail.com (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Adri=E1n_L=F3pez_Garc=EDa_de_Lomana?=) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 15:48:10 +0200 Subject: [texhax] glossaries order linked words In-Reply-To: <4AD0944D.2020604@uea.ac.uk> References: <8E19C8E4-E860-40D9-A9F8-568BD3B11BD1@gmail.com> <4AD0944D.2020604@uea.ac.uk> Message-ID: <77DB274B-9D0F-4C51-9388-EADBDAB68F67@gmail.com> Oh, thanks a lot, I didn't know about that key. Thanks, a On Oct 10, 2009, at 4:03 PM, Dr Nicola L C Talbot wrote: > Adri?n L?pez Garc?a de Lomana wrote: >> I'm working with the package glossaries >> \usepackage[style=altlist,order=letter]{glossaries} >> and I don't know how to solve a minor problem. Some of the > > glossary terms are referenced to an internet site: >> \newglossaryentry{Python}{ >> name=\href{http://www.python.org/}{Python}, >> description={\LDPython}, >> text={Python}} >> and when I create the glossaries, the ordering is not the > > one I would like. I would like the term "Python" to be ordered > > by the letter P, but (I suppose) it takes the first characters of > > "name", in this case "\", for the ordering and all terms that > > contain the "\href" on the name are ordered first. Some ideas of > > how could I solve this? > > Use the sort key: > > \newglossaryentry{Python}{ > sort=Python, > name=\href{http://www.python.org/}{Python}, > description={\LDPython}, > text={Python}} > > Regards > Nicola Talbot > -- > http://theoval.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~nlct/ -- Adri?n L?pez Garc?a de Lomana http://sites.google.com/site/adrianlopezgarciadelomana/ -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sam at liddicott.com Sat Oct 10 08:43:57 2009 From: sam at liddicott.com (Sam Liddicott) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 07:43:57 +0100 Subject: [texhax] xargs / lstlistings quoting of arguments Message-ID: <4AD02D2D.4010901@liddicott.com> (notangle and noweave are literate programming tools.) I'm just finishing a re-write of notangle in awk and noweave in latex. Interested parties can see git tree at http://repo.or.cz/w/newfangle.git (I use Lyx as my authoring tool). I have some difficulties with advanced escaping and arguments. Another chunk may be referred to with this command, with optional arguments passed as chunk parameters - a bit like C macros. \chunkref{chunkname}[optional, arguments, here] I'm having some trouble with arguments to a chunk, when the arguments might contain and underscore or a back-slash I'm using the listings package \lst at ReplaceIn\chunk\lst at filenamerpl whose purpose is to escape out certain special characters, and that works fine enough except in some complex cases I'll describe. If I want to pass an array element as a chunk parameter I might have some code that looks like this: \begin{lstlistings} int s_int[10]; x=3; \chunkref{do_something}[s_int[x]] \end{lstlistings} \lst at ReplaceIn will fixup the _ in s_int for me. of couse the ] in [x] will close the xargs optional argument, so instead I can do: \chunkref{do_something}[{s_int[x]}] which works fine, and if I have a second parameter I would do: \chunkref{do_something_more}[{s_int[x], y}] which works fine too at the moment. but then image it is a 2D array; \chunkref{do_something_more}[{s_int[x, 2], y}] the , in [x, 2] would technically signify the start of the second parameter, so I could enclose each argument in { } \chunkref{do_something_more}[{s_int[x, 2]}, {y}] but either xargs cat codes or listings \lst at ReplaceIn chokes on any { } which don't enclose the whole argument, and so the underscore in s_int is not escaped any more. I attach a minimal sample file newfangle.txt which show how additional inner braces prevent the escaping of enclosed underscores and other characters. I suppose I am inviting discussion on these aspects: 1. how I might properly escape inner underscores (and backslashes, etc) 2. why I'm trying to let the author type (almost) plain C in the middle of a latex document anyway (but thats what lstlistings lets you do) 3. if there are better methods to present parameterised code chunks - one idea that appeals to me is to take the xargs optional argument which is all the parameters and then apply that to a function which is looking for comma separated arguments and will eat any { } (providing xargs hasn't changed the cat-code). Maybe I should not call \lst at ReplaceIn on the entire xargs argument (which is multiple chunk arguments) but first split it into multiple arguments with a recursive function that looks for arguments ending in a comma, and then apply \lst at ReplaceIn on each one... it will take me all morning but I'll try it. I've read Knuths ("you can't pdf it") tex book and the other one and blown my brain a few times, but I still don't have the answers. I'll be glad for any enlightenment that helps me on my way. Sam -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: newfangle.tex Type: text/x-tex Size: 677 bytes Desc: not available URL: From sam at liddicott.com Sat Oct 10 11:11:06 2009 From: sam at liddicott.com (Sam Liddicott) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:11:06 +0100 Subject: [texhax] xargs / lstlistings quoting of arguments References: <4AD02D2D.4010901@liddicott.com> Message-ID: <4AD04FAA.2080201@liddicott.com> I think Scott Pakin's /newcommand/ program will help me. Sam -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From ssghosh at igcar.gov.in Sat Oct 10 10:09:48 2009 From: ssghosh at igcar.gov.in (Ghosh SUDDHASATTWA) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 13:39:48 +0530 Subject: [texhax] Mathematics Equation Editor for Latex Message-ID: Dear Sir, I am recently started with LaTex. I would like to know if there are exhaustive online documents (pdf format) to explain how to write math equations in LaTex. Please help me in this regard Suddhasattwa Ghosh SUDDHASATTWA GHOSH Scientific Officer (D) Pyrochemical Process Studies Section Fuel Chemistry Division Chemistry Group Indira Gandhi Centre for Atomic Research Kalpakkam Tamilnadu 603102 India Phone: 91-44-27480500 (Ext:24283) Fax: 91-44-27480065 -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From sonja.bente at tu-bs.de Sat Oct 10 14:35:57 2009 From: sonja.bente at tu-bs.de (Sonja Bente) Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:35:57 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Decimal numbers in chemical equations with mhchem package Message-ID: <4AD07FAD.6070601@tu-bs.de> An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk Sun Oct 11 17:36:44 2009 From: joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk (Joseph Wright) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 16:36:44 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Decimal numbers in chemical equations with mhchem package In-Reply-To: <4AD07FAD.6070601@tu-bs.de> References: <4AD07FAD.6070601@tu-bs.de> Message-ID: <4AD1FB8C.6060906@morningstar2.co.uk> Sonja Bente wrote: > Dear texhax, > > I have a question according to the mhchem package. I have some chemical > equations where the amounts are decimal numbers, for example \ce{0.151NH3}. Can > I typeset this with mhchem automatically? > > If I use a dot, the dot is centered (like shown in the package documentation), > if I use a comma the part behind is subscript; brackets like {0.151} did not > help, too. If I use \ce{\num{0.151}NH3} it works for the number, but then NH3 is > not correct any more. I tried both math environment and text mode. > > I think the package is great and I love using it, so I would be happy if there > is any trick for decimal numbers! > > Kind regards Have you tried maths-escape: \mhchem{$0.151$NH3} -- Joseph Wright From samuel.lelievre.tex at free.fr Sun Oct 11 18:45:26 2009 From: samuel.lelievre.tex at free.fr (Samuel Lelievre) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 18:45:26 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Mathematics Equation Editor for Latex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Ghosh Suddhasattwa wrote: > I am recently started with LaTex. I would like to know > if there are exhaustive online documents (pdf format) to > explain how to write math equations in LaTex. Herbert Voss's "Math mode", available from CTAN in pdf and in tex form, is "A comprehensive review of mathematics in (La)TeX". You can get it here: http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/math/voss/mathmode/ You can also find online pdf excerpts of the first edition of George Gratzer's book "Math into LaTeX" (1995): http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/info/mil/ Should you be interested in the book, note that there is a 4th edition, called "More math into LaTeX", published 2007. Hope this helps. SL From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Sun Oct 11 21:57:40 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 21:57:40 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Mathematics Equation Editor for Latex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19154.14516.186661.393522@zaphod.ms25.net> On 10 October 2009 Ghosh SUDDHASATTWA wrote: > I am recently started with LaTex. I would like to know if there are > exhaustive online documents (pdf format) to explain how to write math > equations in LaTex. The TUG web page provides links to tutorials: http://tug.org/begin.html See also http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/required/amslatex/math/amsldoc.pdf for more information about typesetting math formulas. There are also tutorials provided by the Indian TeX Users Group: http://www.tug.org.in/tutorial At the moment I have some problems with this server. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From tug-news at tug.org Mon Oct 12 02:47:17 2009 From: tug-news at tug.org (TeX Users Group) Date: Sun, 11 Oct 2009 19:47:17 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Oct 2009 TUG news: TUG 2010, TUGboat, TeX Live Message-ID: <200910120047.n9C0lH015141@f7.net> Dear TeX users, - TUG 2010 will be held in San Francisco, California, USA, from June 28-30, 2010, in the Sir Francis Drake Hotel in San Francisco. As previously mentioned, Don Knuth and other members of the original Stanford TeX Project will be there. We will have several special events, including the conference banquet, to honor their work and celebrate TeX's 32nd anniversary. We welcome abstracts and presentation proposals any time, and hotel reservations are available. The registration form will be posted soon. http://tug.org/tug2010/ - TUGboat 30:2, the TUG 2009 proceedings, was shipped to TUG members recently and is available online. The next issue, a joint issue with MAPS of the EuroTeX 2009 proceedings, is in preparation. http://tug.org/TUGboat/ - TeX Live 2009 is nearly ready for release. For information on what's new, and trying the pretest, see: http://tug.org/texlive/pretest.html Happy TeXing, Karl Berry (President) on behalf of the TUG Board http://www.tug.org/ From narkewoody at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 06:39:40 2009 From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:39:40 +0800 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] German characters stopped PDF generating In-Reply-To: <8763alx447.fsf@vvv.org.vrn.ru> References: <87iqemz2dr.fsf@vvv.org.vrn.ru> <8763alx447.fsf@vvv.org.vrn.ru> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 12:55 AM, Vladimir Volovich wrote: > "SW" == Steven Woody writes: > > ?SW> Thanks for the hint. ?Now I changed INPUT_ENCODING/OUTPUT_ENCODING to > ?SW> ISO-8859-1, then I get another error: > > ?SW> ! Package inputenc Error: Unicode char \u8:? not set up for use > ?SW> with LaTeX. > > your LaTeX file still has \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc}, it > seems. otherwise you shouldn't see messages "Unicode char ...". Now, I manually changed the line from \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} to \usepackage{inputenc}, and the problem seems revoled, I feel everything is fine! Just wondering: why after removed all 'utf-8' in the Doxygen configuration file, it still generate the tex file with 'utf-8' option? > > you should send us the LaTeX source file (preferably minimal) which > exhibits the problem, not just the error message. The new main tex source file has been enclosed, through the problem has been resolved. > > (and, texlive at tug.org is not the best place to report such errors - they > should better be directed e.g. to texhax at tug.org). > Okay, next time I will use texhax, thank you for the reminder. > Best, > v. > -- Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence -- Schopenhauer narke public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: refman.tex Type: application/x-tex Size: 56750 bytes Desc: not available URL: From news3 at nililand.de Mon Oct 12 10:18:24 2009 From: news3 at nililand.de (Ulrike Fischer) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 10:18:24 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] German characters stopped PDF generating References: <87iqemz2dr.fsf@vvv.org.vrn.ru> <8763alx447.fsf@vvv.org.vrn.ru> Message-ID: <1rvrh3f02kfnr$.dlg@nililand.de> Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:39:40 +0800 schrieb Steven Woody: > Now, I manually changed the line from \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} to > \usepackage{inputenc}, It doesn't make much sense to use inputenc without any option. Use \usepackage["Encoding"]{inputenc], where "encoding" is the name of encoding you are using. Btw: You input and include a lot of files. Make sure that they all use the same encoding or change with \inputencoding{...) the encoding before loading them. -- Ulrike Fischer From alan at alphabyte.co.nz Mon Oct 12 10:32:51 2009 From: alan at alphabyte.co.nz (Alan Litchfield) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 21:32:51 +1300 Subject: [texhax] rtf2latex2e on Snow Leopard Message-ID: Sorry about the cross post but since I am attempting to compile the Unix source... Has anyone managed to compile a working binary of rtf2latex2e on Snow Leopard? After much messing about I was finally stopped by this (from config.log): configure:2747: gcc conftest.c >&5 ld: library not found for -lcrt1.10.6.o collect2: ld returned 1 exit status configure:2750: $? = 1 configure:2788: result: configure: failed program was: | /* confdefs.h. */ | #define PACKAGE_NAME "" | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "" | #define PACKAGE_VERSION "" | #define PACKAGE_STRING "" | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT "" | #define COLE_VERSION_INFO "2:1:0" | #define PACKAGE "cole" | #define VERSION "2.0.1" | /* end confdefs.h. */ | | int | main () | { | | ; | return 0; | } configure:2795: error: C compiler cannot create executables Suggestions most welcome. Cheers Alan From narkewoody at gmail.com Mon Oct 12 10:44:59 2009 From: narkewoody at gmail.com (Steven Woody) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:44:59 +0800 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] German characters stopped PDF generating In-Reply-To: <1rvrh3f02kfnr$.dlg@nililand.de> References: <87iqemz2dr.fsf@vvv.org.vrn.ru> <8763alx447.fsf@vvv.org.vrn.ru> <1rvrh3f02kfnr$.dlg@nililand.de> Message-ID: On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Ulrike Fischer wrote: > Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:39:40 +0800 schrieb Steven Woody: > >> Now, I manually changed the line from \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} to >> \usepackage{inputenc}, > > It doesn't make much sense to use inputenc without any option. Use > \usepackage["Encoding"]{inputenc], where "encoding" is the name of > encoding you are using. > > Btw: You input and include a lot of files. Make sure that they all > use the same encoding or change with \inputencoding{...) the > encoding before loading them. > Thank for the suggestion. Next time, I will hope Doxygen generate correct latex file for me. Cheers, narke > > -- > Ulrike Fischer > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org > -- Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence -- Schopenhauer narke public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com) From epubbala at yahoo.com Mon Oct 12 12:27:54 2009 From: epubbala at yahoo.com (jack) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 03:27:54 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [texhax] Prinergy Refiner PPD File In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <649235.26046.qm@web110304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Dear TeX Users, ? I have need to call Prinergy Refiner.PPD file when i making PS file. Our Steps are: ? 1) Compiling LaTeX File. ? 2) Converting DVI to PS (In this step i would like to call Prinergy Refiner.PPD file. But we don't know how do call particular PPD file when making PS file). ? 3) PS2PDF ? Anybody suggest greatly appreciate. ? Thanks in advance. ? Regards, bala -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From prstanley at ntlworld.com Mon Oct 12 12:58:59 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:58:59 +0100 Subject: [texhax] switching from dollars to pounds Message-ID: <20091012105857.MPOM21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks I've just installed miktex 2.8 and for some reason my \pounds and\ textsterling macros are producing dollar symbols. Any idea what may be happening? Thanks Paul From will.adams at frycomm.com Mon Oct 12 13:16:48 2009 From: will.adams at frycomm.com (William Adams) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 07:16:48 -0400 Subject: [texhax] Prinergy Refiner PPD File In-Reply-To: <649235.26046.qm@web110304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> References: <649235.26046.qm@web110304.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> Message-ID: <669A20D8-F0CA-479A-A179-FB98AD017B84@frycomm.com> On Oct 12, 2009, at 6:27 AM, jack wrote: > I have need to call Prinergy Refiner.PPD file when i making PS file. > Our Steps are: > > 1) Compiling LaTeX File. > > 2) Converting DVI to PS (In this step i would like to call Prinergy > Refiner.PPD file. But we don't know how do call particular PPD file > when making PS file). > > 3) PS2PDF > > Anybody suggest greatly appreciate. DVIPS doesn't make use of PPDs AFAIK. If your PostScript isn't conforming to the specifications, your best option would be to add some additional steps: - open the .pdf in Adobe Acrobat - set Acrobat to use the .ppd in question - save (or print) to a PostScript file - distill w/ Acrobat Distiller For my part, I've always found that the features which the Prinergy PPD affords are matched by the configurability of DVIPS and have had no need for it w/ the workflow you describe. William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. From sonja.bente at tu-bs.de Mon Oct 12 14:30:37 2009 From: sonja.bente at tu-bs.de (Sonja Bente) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 14:30:37 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Decimal numbers in chemical equations with mhchem package In-Reply-To: <4AD1FB8C.6060906@morningstar2.co.uk> References: <4AD07FAD.6070601@tu-bs.de> <4AD1FB8C.6060906@morningstar2.co.uk> Message-ID: Joseph Wright wrote: > Sonja Bente wrote: >> Dear texhax, >> >> I have a question according to the mhchem package. I have some >> chemical equations where the amounts are decimal numbers, for example >> \ce{0.151NH3}. Can I typeset this with mhchem automatically? >> >> If I use a dot, the dot is centered (like shown in the package >> documentation), if I use a comma the part behind is subscript; >> brackets like {0.151} did not help, too. If I use \ce{\num{0.151}NH3} >> it works for the number, but then NH3 is not correct any more. I tried >> both math environment and text mode. >> >> I think the package is great and I love using it, so I would be happy >> if there is any trick for decimal numbers! >> >> Kind regards > > Have you tried maths-escape: > > \mhchem{$0.151$NH3} Thanks for your mail! Maths-escape is ok for the number, but I would have to insert the space between number and NH3 manually. And it would not work when using the \ce- command within an equation environment for predefined reaction equations. But maybe I just use text mode with the version you suggested. From news3 at nililand.de Mon Oct 12 16:05:04 2009 From: news3 at nililand.de (Ulrike Fischer) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:05:04 +0200 Subject: [texhax] switching from dollars to pounds References: <20091012105857.MPOM21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <1vyrz1htwv31w.dlg@nililand.de> Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 11:58:59 +0100 schrieb P. R. Stanley: > Hi folks > I've just installed miktex 2.8 and for some reason my \pounds and\ > textsterling macros are producing dollar symbols. Any idea what may > be happening? Why don't you tell us what you are doing? Make a complete, small example. -- Ulrike Fischer From asnd at triumf.ca Mon Oct 12 16:17:37 2009 From: asnd at triumf.ca (Donald Arseneau) Date: 12 Oct 2009 07:17:37 -0700 Subject: [texhax] Specifying baseline-to-baseline skip in TeX In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091011103350.02453140@pop3.web.de> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091011103350.02453140@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: Uwe L?ck writes: > The /designer/ has specified the skip from the last \chapter baseline to the > next baseline. A simple \vskip(glue) closing the chapter macros [apart from > \@afterheading] would result in a baseline-to-baseline distance of (glue)+(b) > where (b) is the \baselineskip associated with either \normalsize or > \section, I don't know ... The descenders of large-font chapter and section titles screw up surrounding \baselineskips, often causing \lineskip to be used. You can get a specific ad-hoc baseline-skip between paragraphs using something like: \newdimen\prevdepthcalc \def\blskipper#1{\par \prevdepthcalc=\prevdepth \advance\prevdepthcalc -#1\relax \advance\prevdepthcalc\baselineskip \advance\prevdepthcalc\parskip \ifdim\prevdepthcalc<-99pt \vskip-99pt \vskip-\prevdepthcalc \prevdepthcalc=-99pt \fi \prevdepth=\prevdepthcalc } It has to have the \baselineskip for the following paragrah already set, but that is not possible in general (the paragraph could end like {\small\par}). If you want to delay operation until \everypar, then you will have to back out of the paragraph, do \blskipper, and re-start the paragraph. That goes roughly like: \begingroup \everypar{}% \setbox\@tempboxa\lastbox \@@par \vskip-\parskip \blskipper{xxxxpt}% \ifvoid\@tempboxa \noindent \else \indent \fi \endgroup But you have to make sure this gets executed *first*, before whatever other code is executed by \everypar. If you are worried about the positioning below chapter heads with [twocolumn] you are out of luck. See bug report latex/3126. -- Donald Arseneau asnd at triumf.ca From barr at math.mcgill.ca Mon Oct 12 19:13:32 2009 From: barr at math.mcgill.ca (Michael Barr) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 13:13:32 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] Awful looking output Message-ID: Try this: $HW=WH$ Don't TeX's kerning tables usually do a better job than this. $HW=W\!H$ looks much better and it might even be better to add another -1mu of space. Michael Barr From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Mon Oct 12 19:41:55 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 18:41:55 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Awful looking output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AD36A63.2090005@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Michael Barr wrote: > Try this: > $HW=WH$ > > Don't TeX's kerning tables usually do a better job than this. $HW=W\!H$ > looks much better and it might even be better to add another -1mu of space. I agree with \!, but \! \mkern -1 mu looks far too tight to me. Philip Taylor From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Tue Oct 13 01:14:30 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 20:14:30 -0300 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] German characters stopped PDF In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AD38E26.8817.B44D3@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> For Windows OS a correct start for german text might look like this: \documentclass[fleqn]{book} \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} \usepackage[ansinew]{inputenc} % correct fuer Windows-OS \usepackage{txfonts} \usepackage{ngerman} ..... But even 'ansinew' a have seen seldom enough. And I had never any problem with transforming ps to pdf. hh > Date: Mon, 12 Oct 2009 16:44:59 +0800 > From: Steven Woody > To: news3 at nililand.de > Cc: texhax at tug.org > Subject: Re: [texhax] [tex-live] German characters stopped PDF > generating > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 4:18 PM, Ulrike Fischer wrote: > > Am Mon, 12 Oct 2009 12:39:40 +0800 schrieb Steven Woody: > > > >> Now, I manually changed the line from \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} to > >> \usepackage{inputenc}, > > > > It doesn't make much sense to use inputenc without any option. Use > > \usepackage["Encoding"]{inputenc], where "encoding" is the name of > > encoding you are using. > > > > Btw: You input and include a lot of files. Make sure that they all > > use the same encoding or change with \inputencoding{...) the > > encoding before loading them. > > > > Thank for the suggestion. Next time, I will hope Doxygen generate > correct latex file for me. > > Cheers, > narke > > > > > -- > > Ulrike Fischer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org > > > > > > -- > Life is the only flaw in an otherwise perfect nonexistence > -- Schopenhauer > > narke > public key at http://subkeys.pgp.net:11371 (narkewoody at gmail.com) > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > texhax mailing list > texhax at tug.org > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > > End of texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 393 > ***************************************** From olegkat at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 06:30:00 2009 From: olegkat at gmail.com (Oleg Katsitadze) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:30:00 +0300 Subject: [texhax] Awful looking output In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091013043000.GA10066@thor> On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 01:13:32PM -0400, Michael Barr wrote: > Try this: > $HW=WH$ > > Don't TeX's kerning tables usually do a better job than this. Well, that's the kerning for the math italic font. You might be tempted to use text italic font: ${\it HW} = {\it WH}$ but then you'd have to watch out for ligatures: $coefficient$ $\it coefficient$ If this is a product of c, o, e, ..., n, t, then the ligatures are inappropriate; but if it is a multi-letter identifier/variable name, then \it is the way to go. Best, Oleg From frisk.h at gmail.com Tue Oct 13 12:40:18 2009 From: frisk.h at gmail.com (Henrik Frisk) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:40:18 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Texlive and fonts In-Reply-To: <60E8434E-26C2-41C7-B24B-EA287AF26EB5@mac.com> References: <311224200908240022q1e21af53u5c79258d3954040b@mail.gmail.com> <311224200908270041j44fda29bh387565275d43133c@mail.gmail.com> <852EB9FA-9776-450C-9E59-9B9FE1848346@mac.com> <311224200908300049y690403a4s651e74a1657be5e@mail.gmail.com> <60E8434E-26C2-41C7-B24B-EA287AF26EB5@mac.com> Message-ID: <311224200910130340k573f107eh1c6108fe751ff269@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Axel E. Retif wrote: > On 30 Aug, 2009, at 02:49, Henrik Frisk wrote: > > [...] >> >> http://tug.org/fonts/fontinstall.html >> >> OK, I followed thes instructions but I still can't seem to get it to work. >> As far as I can tell, everything looks good, files are in the right >> locations and the filename database is updated as it should. But running >> >> $ pdftex testfont >> >> causes the following error >> >> pdfTeX warning: pdftex (file padb8r): Font padb8r at 600 not found >> >> whereas >> >> $ tex testfont >> >> works fine. >> > > As you are using TeXLive 2007, I think updmap should update (or create) > psfonts_t1.map in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/ and pdftex_dl14.map > in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/, with information of your added > fonts. Does it? > > I'm sorry I can't help you, as I don't use TeXLive 2007. > > If anyone can help me out here I would be most greatful. I have tried everything suggested above. Running updmap runs without complains (and finds the maps for the two fonts, Frutiger and Garamond that I'm trying to install), but pdftex will not find them. I have downloaded a fresh copy of the fonts (which works fine on my other two machines, none of which are running texlive though) and reinstalled everything but same result. Any help would be most appreciated. /h -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Tue Oct 13 14:33:59 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:33:59 -0300 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 395 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AD44987.31052.E5C54A@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> It seems wrong anyway. It should be more logical to use $\mathit{HW} = \mathit{WH}$ or $.. \mathit{coefficient}.. $ I tried it. For me it looks well. hh > > but then you'd have to watch out for ligatures: > > $coefficient$ From: texhax-request at tug.org Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 395 To: texhax at tug.org Send reply to: texhax at tug.org Date sent: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:00:02 +0200 > Send texhax mailing list submissions to > texhax at tug.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > texhax-request at tug.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > texhax-owner at tug.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of texhax digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Awful looking output (Oleg Katsitadze) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 07:30:00 +0300 > From: Oleg Katsitadze > To: Michael Barr > Cc: texhax at tug.org > Subject: Re: [texhax] Awful looking output > Message-ID: <20091013043000.GA10066 at thor> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 01:13:32PM -0400, Michael Barr wrote: > > Try this: > > $HW=WH$ > > > > Don't TeX's kerning tables usually do a better job than this. > > Well, that's the kerning for the math italic font. You might be > tempted to use text italic font: > > ${\it HW} = {\it WH}$ > > but then you'd have to watch out for ligatures: > > $coefficient$ > > $\it coefficient$ > > If this is a product of c, o, e, ..., n, t, then the ligatures are > inappropriate; but if it is a multi-letter identifier/variable name, > then \it is the way to go. > > Best, > Oleg > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > texhax mailing list > texhax at tug.org > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > > End of texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 395 > ***************************************** From barr at math.mcgill.ca Tue Oct 13 15:00:31 2009 From: barr at math.mcgill.ca (Michael Barr) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 09:00:31 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] Awful looking output In-Reply-To: <4AD44AC8.22031.EAA92E@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> References: <4AD44AC8.22031.EAA92E@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: On Tue, 13 Oct 2009, hh wrote: > Look the attachment. > > Kerning is working. > > $\mathit{HW} = \mathit{WH}$ > > or > > $.. \mathit{coefficient}.. $ > hh All this is true, but the point was that you should not put math formulas in \mathit (which is for italic text) or, at any rate, you should not have to do so. It is arguable that it was the WH that was wrong since there was not enough space and it looked like text, not math mode. Whatever, TeX is supposed to work out the spacing automatically and doesn't. From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Wed Oct 14 02:44:58 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 02:44:58 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Awful looking output In-Reply-To: References: <4AD44AC8.22031.EAA92E@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: <19157.7946.803900.653264@zaphod.ms25.net> On 13 October 2009 Michael Barr wrote: > On Tue, 13 Oct 2009, hh wrote: > > > Look the attachment. > > > > Kerning is working. > > > > $\mathit{HW} = \mathit{WH}$ > > > > or > > > > $.. \mathit{coefficient}.. $ > > hh > > All this is true, but the point was that you should not put math formulas > in \mathit (which is for italic text) or, at any rate, you should not have > to do so. It is arguable that it was the WH that was wrong since there > was not enough space and it looked like text, not math mode. Whatever, > TeX is supposed to work out the spacing automatically and doesn't. No. Kerning tables have nothing to do with TeX at all. They are font specific. TeX uses whatever is in the .tfm files, regardless where they come from. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From uwe.lueck at web.de Wed Oct 14 11:19:06 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:19:06 +0200 Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> Hi karl, hi texhax, I have studied a Jan Tschichold booklet, and I have met two who studied spacing as graphic designers, and I have just looked again at my copy of TUGboat vol. 24 no. 2 [or just www.tug.org/tugboat/], and what did I see? TUG BOA T -- a boat, a snake, and a single letter "T" ... ... is this an /ironical/ hint on TeX's typographical (kerning) excellence? Please tell me more about spacing/letter-spacing ... Happy TeXing -- Uwe. P.S.: explicitly: if "OA" can be that tight, "AT" can be much more ... even "BO" From uwe.lueck at web.de Wed Oct 14 11:20:57 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 11:20:57 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Specifying baseline-to-baseline skip in TeX In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091011103350.02453140@pop3.web.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20091011103350.02453140@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013162231.028bb850@pop3.web.de> Thanks a lot, Donald. At 16:17 12.10.09, Donald Arseneau wrote: >Uwe L?ck writes: > > > The /designer/ has specified the skip from the last \chapter baseline > to the > > next baseline. A simple \vskip(glue) closing the chapter macros [apart from > > \@afterheading] would result in a baseline-to-baseline distance of > (glue)+(b) > > where (b) is the \baselineskip associated with either \normalsize or > > \section, I don't know ... > >The descenders of large-font chapter and section titles >screw up surrounding \baselineskips, often causing \lineskip >to be used. I sometimes thought I will rule this out by \nointerlineskip, then realized that this needs estimating ascender heights, worse than \baselineskip, then forgot ... >You can get a specific ad-hoc baseline-skip between paragraphs >using something like: > >\newdimen\prevdepthcalc > >\def\blskipper#1{\par >\prevdepthcalc=\prevdepth >\advance\prevdepthcalc -#1\relax >\advance\prevdepthcalc\baselineskip >\advance\prevdepthcalc\parskip \parskip and/or \baselineskip may have shrink/stretch which may be wanted to remove => \newskip >\ifdim\prevdepthcalc<-99pt > \vskip-99pt > \vskip-\prevdepthcalc > \prevdepthcalc=-99pt >\fi Why this? Did you mean "999" to prevent implicit \nointerlineskip? >\prevdepth=\prevdepthcalc >} What about the \lineskip problem? We might rather \vskip some \prevdepthcalc results and then \prevdepth=0, or even less (in case of accent stacks in the first following line ...). >It has to have the \baselineskip for the following >paragrah already set, but that is not possible in general >(the paragraph could end like {\small\par}). If you >want to delay operation until \everypar, then you >will have to back out of the paragraph, do \blskipper, >and re-start the paragraph. That goes roughly like: > >\begingroup > \everypar{}% > \setbox\@tempboxa\lastbox > \@@par > \vskip-\parskip > \blskipper{xxxxpt}% > \ifvoid\@tempboxa \noindent \else \indent \fi >\endgroup Ah, just for a possible indent, I understand. >But you have to make sure this gets executed *first*, before >whatever other code is executed by \everypar. I thought a little /LaTeX/ package could be made right now. In the meantime I thought of modifying \@setfontsize and \fontsize, testing for vmode, but \everypar may be even better. Moreover, the "next baselineskip" could be specified by the font size command (read baseline skip from expansion) or even the sectioning command (read the font size command from its expansion). Another problem to solve for the \everypar approach is \@afterheading, especially with \chapter etc. In my own case, I am assuming \normalsize text is following and suspecting: the designer was not aware of \section, however the few pt exceeding the specification with a larger font are favourable, it is nice if the white space is about the same with a larger following font. Best, Uwe. >If you are worried about the positioning below chapter >heads with [twocolumn] you are out of luck. See bug >report latex/3126. Indeed, the index. But there were suggestions, it seems they were worth trying? (The book class I am working for uses multicol instead.) From uwe.lueck at web.de Wed Oct 14 12:23:37 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:23:37 +0200 Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091014122048.028cf400@pop3.web.de> [Good letter-spacing should make use of the kerning table, but I should have used the term "kerning" here, not "letter-spacing", sorry. I have "letter-spacing" on my mind due to some job. -- U.] At 11:19 14.10.09, Uwe L?ck wrote: >Hi karl, hi texhax, > >I have studied a Jan Tschichold booklet, and I have met two who studied >spacing as graphic designers, and I have just looked again at my copy of >TUGboat vol. 24 no. 2 [or just www.tug.org/tugboat/], and what did I see? > > TUG BOA T > >-- a boat, a snake, and a single letter "T" ... > >... is this an /ironical/ hint on TeX's typographical (kerning) excellence? > >Please tell me more about spacing/letter-spacing ... > >Happy TeXing -- Uwe. > >P.S.: explicitly: if "OA" can be that tight, "AT" can be much more ... >even "BO" >_______________________________________________ >TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > >Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From uwe.lueck at web.de Wed Oct 14 13:20:24 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 13:20:24 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Awful looking output In-Reply-To: <19157.7946.803900.653264@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <4AD44AC8.22031.EAA92E@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091014124353.02942da0@pop3.web.de> At 06:30 13.10.09, Oleg Katsitadze wrote: >On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 01:13:32PM -0400, Michael Barr wrote: > > Try this: > > $HW=WH$ > > > > Don't TeX's kerning tables usually do a better job than this. > >Well, that's the kerning for the math italic font. At 02:44 14.10.09, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: >On 13 October 2009 Michael Barr wrote: > > All this is true, but the point was that you should not put math formulas > > in \mathit (which is for italic text) or, at any rate, you should not > have > > to do so. It is arguable that it was the WH that was wrong since there > > was not enough space and it looked like text, not math mode. Whatever, > > TeX is supposed to work out the spacing automatically and doesn't. > >No. Kerning tables have nothing to do with TeX at all. They are font >specific. TeX uses whatever is in the .tfm files, regardless where >they come from. Are all of you sure that TeX uses any kerning table in $HW=WH$. Please look at Appendix G of the TeXbook, "Generating Boxex from Formulas". My impression is that TeX does /not/ do any kerning here -- because it would be a bad idea. Kerning is good within words and only there. Kerning between two letters that are to represent a product or a composition would be confusing, making the misleading impression the two letters formed an /atomic/ name with an own meaning, similar to, e.g., "mod" or (in category theory) "ker". On the other hand, I think there /is/ something awful here: the way TeX deals with slanted symbols and fonts. Same problem with $\overline{H}$ and that you sometimes have to deal with italic corrections (setting them with plainTeX or avoiding them with LaTeX). TeX treats a slanted symbol as a /box/ (|box|), a /rectangle/ (|rectangle|). This is why $WH$ is wider than $HW$ (slanted "W" has its leftmost "dot" at its top, "H" at its bottom). Wouldn't it be nicer if it treated it as a /parallelogram/? (/parallelogram/ indeed!) Trying to set them as close as possible? Cheers, Uwe. From barr at math.mcgill.ca Wed Oct 14 13:48:12 2009 From: barr at math.mcgill.ca (Michael Barr) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 07:48:12 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] Awful looking output In-Reply-To: <19157.7946.803900.653264@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <4AD44AC8.22031.EAA92E@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <19157.7946.803900.653264@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: On Wed, 14 Oct 2009, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > On 13 October 2009 Michael Barr wrote: > > > On Tue, 13 Oct 2009, hh wrote: > > > > > Look the attachment. > > > > > > Kerning is working. > > > > > > $\mathit{HW} = \mathit{WH}$ > > > > > > or > > > > > > $.. \mathit{coefficient}.. $ > > > hh > > > > All this is true, but the point was that you should not put math formulas > > in \mathit (which is for italic text) or, at any rate, you should not have > > to do so. It is arguable that it was the WH that was wrong since there > > was not enough space and it looked like text, not math mode. Whatever, > > TeX is supposed to work out the spacing automatically and doesn't. > > No. Kerning tables have nothing to do with TeX at all. They are font > specific. TeX uses whatever is in the .tfm files, regardless where > they come from. > > Regards, > Reinhard > > Maybe it has nothing to do with TeX, but these cmit fonts were created by Knuth using Metafont and are inextricably linked to TeX. It is disingenuous to say that they have nothing to do with TeX. Michael From bnb at ams.org Wed Oct 14 16:49:25 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 10:49:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: hi, uwe, i'm in a better position to respond to this than karl, since i know the history of the tugboat logo. I have studied a Jan Tschichold booklet, and I have met two who studied spacing as graphic designers, and I have just looked again at my copy of TUGboat vol. 24 no. 2 [or just www.tug.org/tugboat/], and what did I see? TUG BOA T -- a boat, a snake, and a single letter "T" ... i agree with you. ... is this an /ironical/ hint on TeX's typographical (kerning) excellence? i'm sure it's not intentional, but the person who created the first tugboat cover, the first tugboat editor, had even less formal graphics training than i did at that point. he used some press-type (remember that?) that he had on hand to put together all the type on the cover, along with a sketch he had made of a reproduction of what was allegedly gutenberg's press. there really wasn't anyone around to give a competent critique of the typography. and there wasn't any of the press-type left over to try again. (and, as a footnote, the name of the typeface has been lost, so now that so many electronic options are available, no one has identified it so that the matter could be reconsidered.) everything on the cover and title page was pasted up by hand for several years; with volume 4, the type other than the logo was set by tex, but the logo was kept. we tried some experiments using cminch, but the results weren't satisfactory. (all of this predates type 1 fonts.) Please tell me more about spacing/letter-spacing ... (you've since reworded that as "kerning".) Happy TeXing -- Uwe. thanks. we continue to do so. P.S.: explicitly: if "OA" can be that tight, "AT" can be much more ... even "BO" my preference would be for the "AT" to be closed up and a little more daylight between "OA". now that the question is on the table, i'll see that we take it under advisement. -- bb From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 14 17:33:46 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 16:33:46 +0100 Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <4AD5EF5A.9010809@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Here is the logo re-created from Serif Gothic Bold (TUG) and Friz Quadrata (BOAT). I haven't worried too much about relative sizes. The samples are courtesy http://www.myfonts.com/ Philip Taylor -------- Barbara Beeton wrote: > i'm sure it's not intentional, but the person > who created the first tugboat cover, the first > tugboat editor, had even less formal graphics > training than i did at that point. he used > some press-type (remember that?) that he had > on hand to put together all the type on the > cover, along with a sketch he had made of a > reproduction of what was allegedly gutenberg's > press. there really wasn't anyone around to > give a competent critique of the typography. > and there wasn't any of the press-type left > over to try again. (and, as a footnote, the > name of the typeface has been lost, so now > that so many electronic options are available, > no one has identified it so that the matter > could be reconsidered.) -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: TUGboat-logo.png Type: image/png Size: 4552 bytes Desc: not available URL: From will.adams at frycomm.com Wed Oct 14 18:21:08 2009 From: will.adams at frycomm.com (William Adams) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:21:08 -0400 Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <6F03CBBD-1357-4737-BC35-81153831C26A@frycomm.com> On Oct 14, 2009, at 5:19 AM, Uwe L?ck wrote: > Please tell me more about spacing/letter-spacing ... Books on calligraphy cover this best IMO. A good type treatment though is Walter Tracy's wonderful _Letters of Credit_ David Kindersley had some interesting writings on it however, as well as a nifty machine / algorithm (LOGOS). William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. From alan at alphabyte.co.nz Wed Oct 14 22:45:40 2009 From: alan at alphabyte.co.nz (Alan T Litchfield) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 09:45:40 +1300 Subject: [texhax] rtf2latex2e on Snow Leopard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: No responses. But tried on 10.5 with powerpc too, with more progress. ./configure --build=powerpc-apple-darwin9 works ok make fails with: *** No rule to make target `rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.o', needed by `rtf2latex2e.bin'. Change to Makefile, line 16 from VPATH = .:/common:$(srcdir)/common/cole to VPATH = .:$(srcdir)/common:$(srcdir)/common/cole make now fails with output: gcc -g -O2 -DINSTALL_DIR=\"/usr/local/rtf2latex2e\" -I../src/include -c -o rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.o ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c In file included from ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:25: ../src/include/rtf2LaTeX2e.h:38:24: error: unix.mac.h: No such file or directory ../src/include/rtf2LaTeX2e.h:39:21: error: Main.h: No such file or directory In file included from ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:25: ../src/include/rtf2LaTeX2e.h:278: error: syntax error before ?Str2OSType? ../src/include/rtf2LaTeX2e.h:278: warning: data definition has no type or storage class ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:36: error: syntax error before ?gOApped? ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:36: warning: data definition has no type or storage class ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c: In function ?main?: ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:228: error: ?_fcreator? undeclared (first use in this function) ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:228: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:228: error: for each function it appears in.) ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:230: error: ?_ftype? undeclared (first use in this function) ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:252: error: ?nil? undeclared (first use in this function) ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c: At top level: ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:343: error: syntax error before ?Str2OSType? ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c: In function ?Str2OSType?: ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:345: error: ?OSType? undeclared (first use in this function) ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:345: error: syntax error before ?num? ../src/common/rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.c:346: error: ?num? undeclared (first use in this function) make: *** [rtf2LaTeX2e-driver.o] Error 1 Giving up now. Alan On 12/10/2009, at 9:32 PM, Alan Litchfield wrote: > Sorry about the cross post but since I am attempting to compile the > Unix source... > > Has anyone managed to compile a working binary of rtf2latex2e on > Snow Leopard? > > After much messing about I was finally stopped by this (from > config.log): > > configure:2747: gcc conftest.c >&5 > ld: library not found for -lcrt1.10.6.o > collect2: ld returned 1 exit status > configure:2750: $? = 1 > configure:2788: result: > configure: failed program was: > | /* confdefs.h. */ > | #define PACKAGE_NAME "" > | #define PACKAGE_TARNAME "" > | #define PACKAGE_VERSION "" > | #define PACKAGE_STRING "" > | #define PACKAGE_BUGREPORT "" > | #define COLE_VERSION_INFO "2:1:0" > | #define PACKAGE "cole" > | #define VERSION "2.0.1" > | /* end confdefs.h. */ > | > | int > | main () > | { > | > | ; > | return 0; > | } > configure:2795: error: C compiler cannot create executables > > Suggestions most welcome. > > Cheers > Alan From asnd at triumf.ca Wed Oct 14 23:24:58 2009 From: asnd at triumf.ca (Donald Arseneau) Date: 14 Oct 2009 14:24:58 -0700 Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum In-Reply-To: <4AD5EF5A.9010809@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> <4AD5EF5A.9010809@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: Barbara Beeton wrote: > the name of the typeface has been lost, I was going to reply pointing out that there are two typefaces in the logo, and checking some fonts I see... Philip TAYLOR writes: > Here is the logo re-created from > Serif Gothic Bold (TUG) and > Friz Quadrata (BOAT). ... that the BOAT looks like Friz Quadrata! -- Donald Arseneau asnd at triumf.ca From bnb at ams.org Wed Oct 14 23:32:00 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:32:00 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> <4AD5EF5A.9010809@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: donald arseneau observes Barbara Beeton wrote: > the name of the typeface has been lost, I was going to reply pointing out that there are two typefaces in the logo, and checking some fonts I see... Philip TAYLOR writes: > Here is the logo re-created from > Serif Gothic Bold (TUG) and > Friz Quadrata (BOAT). ... that the BOAT looks like Friz Quadrata! phil got it right. i remember these names, but didn't have them written down anywhere. thanks, all. -- bb From murat.hudaverdi at uzay.tubitak.gov.tr Tue Oct 13 11:38:52 2009 From: murat.hudaverdi at uzay.tubitak.gov.tr (=?windows-1254?Q?Murat_H=FCdaverdi?=) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 12:38:52 +0300 Subject: [texhax] TeXShop problem ! Message-ID: Dear Sir, I am using TexShop on my MacbookPro (OSX 10.6.1).. but i am having this error.. Can't find required tool. /usr/texbin/simpdftex does not exist. Perhaps TeXLive was not installed or was removed during a system upgrade. If so, go to the TeXShop web site and follow the instructions to (re)install TeXLive. Another possibility is that a tool path is incorrectly configured in TeXShop preferences. This can happen if you are using the fink teTeX distribution. I will appreciate any kinds of help.. Regards, ====================================== Murat HUDAVERDI, PhD. Senior Researcher Tel: +90 - 312 - 210 13 10 ? 1136 Fax: +90 - 312 - 210 13 15 murat.hudaverdi at uzay.tubitak.gov.tr ====================================== TUBITAK Space Technologies Research Institute Satellite System Design Department Reliability Laboratory Expertise Group ODTU Ankara 06531 TURKEY ====================================== From cdep.illabout at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 01:42:03 2009 From: cdep.illabout at gmail.com (cdep.illabout at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 19:42:03 -0400 Subject: [texhax] spacing too large with eqlist in moderncv Message-ID: <70732fb40910131642u483cd7f6v2bb28a8960f7be88@mail.gmail.com> I'm running into a problem where there is too much space after a \section{} command if it is followed by a \cvline with an eqlist environment in the \cvline. My question is, why does this happen? Where does extra space come from?? Here is a minimal example: \documentclass[12pt,letterpaper,draft]{moderncv} \moderncvtheme[green]{classic} \AtBeginDocument{\recomputelengths} % required when changes are made % to page layout lengths % personal data \firstname{Some} \familyname{Name} \address{Address}{More Address} \phone{Phone number} \email{email address} \usepackage{eqlist} \begin{document} \maketitle \section{Good amount of space below} \cventry{year--year}{dedree}{college}{place}{GPA}{description} \section{Too much space below} \cvline{}{% \begin{eqlist*}[\setlength{\itemsep}{0em}% \setlength{\topsep}{0em}% \setlength{\partopsep}{0em}% \setlength{\parskip}{0em}% \setlength{\parsep}{0em}% ]% \item[item 1] some text somdtext some text some text some text some text some% \item[item 2] some more text% \end{eqlist*}% } \section{Good amount of space below} \begin{eqlist*}[\setlength{\itemsep}{0em}% \setlength{\topsep}{0em}% \setlength{\partopsep}{0em}% \setlength{\parskip}{0em}% \setlength{\parsep}{0em}% ]% \item[item 1] some text somdtext some text some text some text some text some% \item[item 2] some more text% \end{eqlist*}% \end{document} I know an easy way to fix this is just to add a negative \vspace before the eqlist environment, but I want to know why there is extra space at all. I want to know where it comes from. Thanks! From cdep.illabout at gmail.com Wed Oct 14 02:03:40 2009 From: cdep.illabout at gmail.com (cdep.illabout at gmail.com) Date: Tue, 13 Oct 2009 20:03:40 -0400 Subject: [texhax] spacing too large with eqlist in moderncv In-Reply-To: <70732fb40910131642u483cd7f6v2bb28a8960f7be88@mail.gmail.com> References: <70732fb40910131642u483cd7f6v2bb28a8960f7be88@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <70732fb40910131703j6e35d8bcp581167092552e7eb@mail.gmail.com> Actually, the problem should be that there is too much space before an eqlist environment if if comes after a section command. Here is the correct minimal example: \documentclass[12pt,letterpaper,draft]{moderncv} \moderncvtheme[green]{classic} \AtBeginDocument{\recomputelengths} % required when changes are made % to page layout lengths % personal data \firstname{Some} \familyname{Name} \address{Address}{More Address} \phone{Phone number} \email{email address} \usepackage{eqlist} \begin{document} \maketitle \section{Perfect amount of space} \cventry{year--year}{dedree}{college}{place}{GPA}{description} \section{too much space after this} \cvline{}{% \begin{eqlist*}[\setlength{\itemsep}{0em}% \setlength{\topsep}{0em}% \setlength{\partopsep}{0em}% \setlength{\parskip}{0em}% \setlength{\parsep}{0em}% ]% \item[item 1] some text somdtext some text some text some text some text some% \item[item 2] some more text% \end{eqlist*}% } \section{too much space after even this} \begin{eqlist*}[\setlength{\itemsep}{0em}% \setlength{\topsep}{0em}% \setlength{\partopsep}{0em}% \setlength{\parskip}{0em}% \setlength{\parsep}{0em}% ]% \item[item 1] some text somdtext some text some text some text some text some% \item[item 2] some more text% \end{eqlist*}% \end{document} From amaxwell at mac.com Thu Oct 15 02:31:02 2009 From: amaxwell at mac.com (Adam R. Maxwell) Date: Wed, 14 Oct 2009 17:31:02 -0700 Subject: [texhax] [OS X TeX] Re: rtf2latex2e on Snow Leopard In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: On Oct 14, 2009, at 1:45 PM, Alan T Litchfield wrote: > No responses. But tried on 10.5 with powerpc too, with more progress. It compiles for me on 10.6 after copying /usr/share/automake-1.10/config.guess over the version included in the Unix subdirectory. This looks like the bug reported here: http://sourceforge.net/tracker/index.php?func=detail&aid=1626194&group_id=22324&atid=374868 I compiled as 32 bit only by setting CC=gcc-4.0, since I wouldn't bet on it being 64 bit clean. It produced a binary, but I haven't bothered testing it. -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/pkcs7-signature Size: 2415 bytes Desc: not available URL: From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Thu Oct 15 04:18:46 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 04:18:46 +0200 Subject: [texhax] TeXShop problem ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19158.34438.666369.967239@zaphod.ms25.net> On 13 October 2009 Murat H?daverdi wrote: > Dear Sir, > > I am using TexShop on my MacbookPro (OSX 10.6.1).. > but i am having this error.. Did you read the error message at all? > Can't find required tool. /usr/texbin/simpdftex does not exist. Does it exist? > Perhaps TeXLive was not installed or was removed during a system > upgrade. Is TeX Live installed? Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From axel.retif at mac.com Thu Oct 15 08:29:59 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 01:29:59 -0500 Subject: [texhax] TeXShop problem ! In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <3DB02061-F282-46A3-8452-10F278155A14@mac.com> On 13 Oct, 2009, at 04:38, Murat H?daverdi wrote: > Dear Sir, > > I am using TexShop on my MacbookPro (OSX 10.6.1).. > but i am having this error.. > > Can't find required tool. > /usr/texbin/simpdftex does not exist. Perhaps TeXLive was not > installed or was removed during a system upgrade. As Reinhard has told you, this message says it all. If you already had installed TeXLive, maybe when you installed Snow Leopard it was deleted. So download MacTeX again and reinstall it. If you haven't installed MacTeX previously, please remember that TeXShop is just a front-end to TeX & friends applications. Go to http://www.tug.org/mactex/ download MacTeX.mpkg.zip and install it. Best, Axel From uwe.lueck at web.de Thu Oct 15 20:10:44 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 20:10:44 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Awful looking output In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091014124353.02942da0@pop3.web.de> References: <19157.7946.803900.653264@zaphod.ms25.net> <4AD44AC8.22031.EAA92E@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091015200920.028ba260@pop3.web.de> Sorry, my below was a /question/: sure that TeX does any kerning in $WH$? (/?/) Another question: does anybody know typesetting programs that treat slanted symbols as parallelograms rather than rectangles? -- Uwe. At 13:20 14.10.09, Uwe L?ck wrote: >At 06:30 13.10.09, Oleg Katsitadze wrote: >>On Mon, Oct 12, 2009 at 01:13:32PM -0400, Michael Barr wrote: >> > Try this: >> > $HW=WH$ >> > >> > Don't TeX's kerning tables usually do a better job than this. >> >>Well, that's the kerning for the math italic font. > >At 02:44 14.10.09, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: >>On 13 October 2009 Michael Barr wrote: >> > All this is true, but the point was that you should not put math formulas >> > in \mathit (which is for italic text) or, at any rate, you should not >> have >> > to do so. It is arguable that it was the WH that was wrong since there >> > was not enough space and it looked like text, not math mode. Whatever, >> > TeX is supposed to work out the spacing automatically and doesn't. >> >>No. Kerning tables have nothing to do with TeX at all. They are font >>specific. TeX uses whatever is in the .tfm files, regardless where >>they come from. > >Are all of you sure that TeX uses any kerning table in $HW=WH$. Please >look at Appendix G of the TeXbook, "Generating Boxex from Formulas". > >My impression is that TeX does /not/ do any kerning here -- because it >would be a bad idea. Kerning is good within words and only there. Kerning >between two letters that are to represent a product or a composition would >be confusing, making the misleading impression the two letters formed an >/atomic/ name with an own meaning, similar to, e.g., "mod" or (in category >theory) "ker". > >On the other hand, I think there /is/ something awful here: the way TeX >deals with slanted symbols and fonts. Same problem with $\overline{H}$ and >that you sometimes have to deal with italic corrections (setting them with >plainTeX or avoiding them with LaTeX). TeX treats a slanted symbol as a >/box/ (|box|), a /rectangle/ (|rectangle|). This is why $WH$ is wider than >$HW$ (slanted "W" has its leftmost "dot" at its top, "H" at its bottom). >Wouldn't it be nicer if it treated it as a /parallelogram/? >(/parallelogram/ indeed!) Trying to set them as close as possible? > >Cheers, > > Uwe. > >_______________________________________________ >TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > >Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From prstanley at ntlworld.com Thu Oct 15 22:49:42 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 21:49:42 +0100 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros Message-ID: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks \strut, \vtop and lblot. I'd be grateful for a brief description of each, more precisely, the general effect on the presentation. Here's an example of two of them in use taken from The Z Notation: a Reference Manual by Michael Spivey. $birthday$: \[ known = \{\,{\rm John, Mike, Susan}\,\} \\ \also birthday = \{\,\vtop{\halign{\strut#\hfil&${}\mapsto{}$#\hfil\cr John& 25--Mar,\cr Mike& 20--Dec,\cr Susan& 20--Dec\,\}.\cr}} \] Truth be told I've seldom come across anything so cryptic. For example, what does the "#" signify? Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance Paul From uwe.lueck at web.de Thu Oct 15 23:00:58 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:00:58 +0200 Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum In-Reply-To: <6F03CBBD-1357-4737-BC35-81153831C26A@frycomm.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091015214008.028cfa10@pop3.web.de> At 18:21 14.10.09, William Adams wrote: >On Oct 14, 2009, at 5:19 AM, Uwe L?ck wrote: > >>Please tell me more about spacing/letter-spacing ... > >Books on calligraphy cover this best IMO. A good type treatment though >is Walter Tracy's wonderful _Letters of Credit_ > >David Kindersley had some interesting writings on it however, as well >as a nifty machine / algorithm (LOGOS). Thanks a lot, William! I will tell the publishers they should read this. So I get letter-spacing info although the posting was about kerning. Actually, there is just C H A P T E R 1 `\kern0.25em' manually inserted. I professional designer I asked said it looks bad, at least with cmr at 16pt. It seems to look better with Adobe Caslon. Cheers, Uwe. From bnb at ams.org Thu Oct 15 23:29:29 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 17:29:29 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: \strut, \vtop and lblot. I'd be grateful for a brief description of each, more precisely, the general effect on the presentation. \strut gives a vertical rule of zero width and the height and depth of a parenthesis. its purpose is to ensure even line spacing, especially in alignments like the one you cite. \vtop ensures that the first line of the aligned block is on the same baseline as the preceding text, "birthday". the hash # is where an argument is dropped into a frame. (it's equivalent to #1 for the first argument in a \def.) so the first line expands to John \mapsto 25--Mar hope that makes sense. this is plain tex, *very* plain tex. -- bb Here's an example of two of them in use taken from The Z Notation: a Reference Manual by Michael Spivey. $birthday$: \[ known = \{\,{\rm John, Mike, Susan}\,\} \\ \also birthday = \{\,\vtop{\halign{\strut#\hfil&${}\mapsto{}$#\hfil\cr John& 25--Mar,\cr Mike& 20--Dec,\cr Susan& 20--Dec\,\}.\cr}} \] Truth be told I've seldom come across anything so cryptic. For example, what does the "#" signify? Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks in advance Paul From uwe.lueck at web.de Thu Oct 15 23:36:52 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:36:52 +0200 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pi ne.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091015230949.029448c0@pop3.web.de> Hi Paul, I neither know about `lblot' nor see another occurrence of it. The rest is about Alignment as described in Chapters 12 and 22 of Knuth's TeXbook. \strut is a kind of invisible generic symbol to provide (if possible) equal baseline distances when the usual line spacing method has been disabled. The latter happens (for reasons I have never investigated) with horizontal alignment (\halign) that your sample shows, i.e., building tables very close to TeX's primitives. While the hash mark`#' refers to macro parameters otherwise, it refers to the content of a table cell when algorithm to process table rows is specified in the first "template" row of an \halign. For reasons not entirely clear to me up to now, you find \halign always within in a "vertical box", \vbox, \vtop, or \vcenter. These three alternatives refer to alignment of "high" boxes relative to each other in a line, but also influence "line spacing" (a hard matter of the subject "baseline-to-baseline skips"). \vtop means that the first line is mainly considered for alignment within a line, the other lines of it are pushed down. \vbox focuses on the last line instead. \vcenter centers the whole stack within a line. LaTeX provides `tabular', `array', and similar environments to save you from learning these things ... ... haha, a try at a resume of some very hard things from TeX in a few minutes, fostered by some beer, hope it helps though ... Uwe. At 22:49 15.10.09, P. R. Stanley wrote: >Hi folks >\strut, \vtop and lblot. I'd be grateful for a brief description of each, >more precisely, the general effect on the presentation. > >Here's an example of two of them in use taken from The Z Notation: a >Reference Manual by Michael Spivey. > >$birthday$: >\[ > known = \{\,{\rm John, Mike, Susan}\,\} \\ >\also > birthday = \{\,\vtop{\halign{\strut#\hfil&${}\mapsto{}$#\hfil\cr > John& 25--Mar,\cr > Mike& 20--Dec,\cr > Susan& 20--Dec\,\}.\cr}} >\] >Truth be told I've seldom come across anything so cryptic. For example, >what does the "#" signify? >Any help would be most appreciated. >Thanks in advance >Paul From uwe.lueck at web.de Fri Oct 16 00:04:38 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:04:38 +0200 Subject: [texhax] letter-spacing TUGboat alarum In-Reply-To: References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20091013230444.028b75d0@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091016000108.028d46a0@pop3.web.de> At 16:49 14.10.09, Barbara Beeton wrote: >i'm in a better position to respond to this >than karl, since i know the history of the >tugboat logo. My intention was to address you rather then karl, but I thought I must route it via karl as my personal TUGboat correspondent (German "Dienstweg"). Thanks a lot for the nice history. -- Uwe. From uwe.lueck at web.de Fri Oct 16 00:08:40 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:08:40 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Specifying baseline-to-baseline skip in TeX In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091013162231.028bb850@pop3.web.de> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20091011103350.02453140@pop3.web.de> <5.1.0.14.0.20091011103350.02453140@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091016000538.028d6e70@pop3.web.de> More general and simple, ignoring TeX, a question to professional graphical designers: What relevance is there in specifying baseline-to-baseline skips? I thought that the white space is more relevant and should be specified instead. -- Uwe. At 11:20 14.10.09, Uwe L?ck wrote: >Thanks a lot, Donald. > >At 16:17 12.10.09, Donald Arseneau wrote: >>Uwe L?ck writes: >> >> > The /designer/ has specified the skip from the last \chapter baseline >> to the >> > next baseline. A simple \vskip(glue) closing the chapter macros [apart >> from >> > \@afterheading] would result in a baseline-to-baseline distance of >> (glue)+(b) >> > where (b) is the \baselineskip associated with either \normalsize or >> > \section, I don't know ... >> >>The descenders of large-font chapter and section titles >>screw up surrounding \baselineskips, often causing \lineskip >>to be used. > >I sometimes thought I will rule this out by \nointerlineskip, then >realized that this needs estimating ascender heights, worse than >\baselineskip, then forgot ... > >>You can get a specific ad-hoc baseline-skip between paragraphs >>using something like: >> >>\newdimen\prevdepthcalc >> >>\def\blskipper#1{\par >>\prevdepthcalc=\prevdepth >>\advance\prevdepthcalc -#1\relax >>\advance\prevdepthcalc\baselineskip >>\advance\prevdepthcalc\parskip > >\parskip and/or \baselineskip may have shrink/stretch which may be wanted >to remove => \newskip > >>\ifdim\prevdepthcalc<-99pt >> \vskip-99pt >> \vskip-\prevdepthcalc >> \prevdepthcalc=-99pt >>\fi > >Why this? Did you mean "999" to prevent implicit \nointerlineskip? > >>\prevdepth=\prevdepthcalc >>} > >What about the \lineskip problem? We might rather \vskip some >\prevdepthcalc results and then \prevdepth=0, or even less (in case of >accent stacks in the first following line ...). > >>It has to have the \baselineskip for the following >>paragrah already set, but that is not possible in general >>(the paragraph could end like {\small\par}). If you >>want to delay operation until \everypar, then you >>will have to back out of the paragraph, do \blskipper, >>and re-start the paragraph. That goes roughly like: >> >>\begingroup >> \everypar{}% >> \setbox\@tempboxa\lastbox >> \@@par >> \vskip-\parskip >> \blskipper{xxxxpt}% >> \ifvoid\@tempboxa \noindent \else \indent \fi >>\endgroup > >Ah, just for a possible indent, I understand. > >>But you have to make sure this gets executed *first*, before >>whatever other code is executed by \everypar. > >I thought a little /LaTeX/ package could be made right now. In the >meantime I thought of modifying \@setfontsize and \fontsize, testing for >vmode, but \everypar may be even better. Moreover, the "next baselineskip" >could be specified by the font size command (read baseline skip from >expansion) or even the sectioning command (read the font size command from >its expansion). > >Another problem to solve for the \everypar approach is \@afterheading, >especially with \chapter etc. > >In my own case, I am assuming \normalsize text is following and >suspecting: the designer was not aware of \section, however the few pt >exceeding the specification with a larger font are favourable, it is nice >if the white space is about the same with a larger following font. > >Best, > > Uwe. > > >>If you are worried about the positioning below chapter >>heads with [twocolumn] you are out of luck. See bug >>report latex/3126. > >Indeed, the index. But there were suggestions, it seems they were worth >trying? (The book class I am working for uses multicol instead.) > >_______________________________________________ >TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > >Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From prstanley at ntlworld.com Fri Oct 16 00:30:30 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Thu, 15 Oct 2009 23:30:30 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Knuth's book on plain tex (formerly Help with identifying some macros) In-Reply-To: References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20091015223018.PZDL22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Thank you, BB. I suppose I can draw some comfort from the fact that this is plain tex and not the more streamlined LaTeX. Still, where would I find Knuth's book on plain TeX? Is it freely available in plain TeX? this is slowly turning into a parallel to Russell's paradox. Cheers Paul From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Fri Oct 16 00:49:13 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:49:13 +0200 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <19159.42729.116943.438631@zaphod.ms25.net> On 15 October 2009 P. R. Stanley wrote: > Hi folks > \strut, \vtop and lblot. I'd be grateful for a brief description of > each, more precisely, the general effect on the presentation. > > Here's an example of two of them in use taken from The Z Notation: a > Reference Manual by Michael Spivey. > > $birthday$: > \[ > known = \{\,{\rm John, Mike, Susan}\,\} \\ > \also > birthday = \{\,\vtop{\halign{\strut#\hfil&${}\mapsto{}$#\hfil\cr > John& 25--Mar,\cr > Mike& 20--Dec,\cr > Susan& 20--Dec\,\}.\cr}} > \] > Truth be told I've seldom come across anything so cryptic. For > example, what does the "#" signify? I can't answer your questions better than Barbara. If you need more information about plain TeX. it's advisable to consult a tutorial. A few of them are available on-line, for example: http://www.ctan.org/pub/tex-archive/info/impatient/book.pdf \halign is explained on page 178. BTW, plain TeX is not really cryptic. Try to understand this code: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal-man/s02.html Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From martin at oneiros.de Fri Oct 16 00:53:42 2009 From: martin at oneiros.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Schr=F6der?=) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 00:53:42 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Knuth's book on plain tex (formerly Help with identifying some macros) In-Reply-To: <20091015223018.PZDL22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <20091015223018.PZDL22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <68c491a60910151553q553355aar1a820c02c62dd63b@mail.gmail.com> 2009/10/16 P. R. Stanley : > ? ? ? ?Thank you, BB. I suppose I can draw some comfort from the fact that > this is plain tex and not the more streamlined LaTeX. Still, where would I > find Knuth's book on plain TeX? Is it freely available in plain TeX? Please read the text at the bottom of every list mail. You will find a link to the TeX FAQ, which answers these and other questions. And see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:BookSources/0201134489 Best Martin From uwe.lueck at web.de Fri Oct 16 08:27:48 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 08:27:48 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Knuth's book on plain tex (formerly Help with identifying some macros) In-Reply-To: <68c491a60910151553q553355aar1a820c02c62dd63b@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20091015223018.PZDL22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <20091015223018.PZDL22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091016081416.028cb7e0@pop3.web.de> At 00:30 16.10.09, P. R. Stanley wrote: > Thank you, BB. I suppose I can draw some comfort from the fact > that this is plain tex and not the more streamlined LaTeX. Still, where > would I find Knuth's book on plain TeX? Is it freely available in plain TeX? >this is slowly turning into a parallel to Russell's paradox. http://ctan.org/get/systems/knuth/dist/tex/texbook.tex -- this link is from Philip TAYLOR's posting http://tug.org/mailman/htdig/texhax/2009-March/011991.html The discussion on "accessibility" went on with BB's http://tug.org/mailman/htdig/texhax/2009-March/011993.html So this reminds me more of a circle than a paradox. Cheers, Uwe. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Fri Oct 16 10:28:05 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:28:05 +0100 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4AD82E95.4010907@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Barbara Beeton wrote: (and Barbara is never wrong) > hope that makes sense. this is plain tex, > *very* plain tex. but is it ? On trying to compile it, I am told ! Undefined control sequence. l.2 \[ which rather met my expectations. So what /is/ it, I am forced to ask ?! Philip Taylor P.S. I /was/ going to say that it would be far more comprehensible if greater attention had been paid to layout, but if -- as I suspect -- Paul Stanley is using a speech synthesiser to examine the material, then I am not sure that better layout would help. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Fri Oct 16 10:38:07 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:38:07 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] Compiling TeX from source In-Reply-To: <605202f20910160120x236df1b5w540bbf52fcbff70b@mail.gmail.com> References: <605202f20910160120x236df1b5w540bbf52fcbff70b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AD830EF.8060507@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Just tangling TeX is rarely sufficient; normally at the very least you need a "change" file which adapts the source to the target platform, and in your case, that same change file may need to address any deviations between the dialect of PASCAL supported by the compiler and the dialect used by Don in writing the source. Early issues of TUGBoat should contain some material about compilation from source, I imagine. Philip Taylor [TeX Live list dropped : not appropriate for this topic] -------- Vafa Khalighi wrote: > Does anyone know how I can compile tex from its source. I run tangle on > tex.web to get the pascal file but when running gpc on tex.p, I get > some errors. > > Thanks > -- > Vafa From asnd at triumf.ca Fri Oct 16 11:42:46 2009 From: asnd at triumf.ca (Donald Arseneau) Date: 16 Oct 2009 02:42:46 -0700 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: "P. R. Stanley" writes: > Here's an example of two of them in use taken from The Z Notation: a > Reference Manual by Michael Spivey. > > $birthday$: He should be flogged for that! > \[ Is this a bit of LaTeX mixed up with ugly Plain TeX? Or is it a "Z" macro? > known = \{\,{\rm John, Mike, Susan}\,\} \\ The \rm is better, but I think those words are still in math mode. Horrible! > \also > birthday = \{\,\vtop{\halign{\strut#\hfil&${}\mapsto{}$#\hfil\cr > John& 25--Mar,\cr > Mike& 20--Dec,\cr > Susan& 20--Dec\,\}.\cr}} > \] > Truth be told I've seldom come across anything so cryptic. For example, what > does the "#" signify? Look up the meaning and usage of \halign in The TeXbook or in TeX by Topic; or skip it entirely! The first line (up to \cr) of \halign is a template, and # shows where the text of the following rows is inserted in the template. -- Donald Arseneau asnd at triumf.ca From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Fri Oct 16 12:18:29 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:18:29 +0100 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs Message-ID: <4AD84875.4030706@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Forced to look (for the very first time) at the TeX Live naming scheme for the TFM files for the standard 35 Adobe/PostScript fonts, I am puzzled by many of the ?encoding? suffices. I see (for example) 7t, 8c, 8r, 8t, 8y and even an 8rn, but looking (also for the first time) at : http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/info/fontname/html/Encodings.html#Encodings only "8r: TeX base" of the above 6 ?encoding? suffices. Could someone please enlighten me as to the meaning of the other five (and of any I may have missed), and also let me have a reference to an authoritative document describing these ? Many thanks in advance : Philip Taylor From uwe.lueck at web.de Fri Oct 16 14:52:08 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 14:52:08 +0200 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pi ne.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> ok, as Philip Taylor & Donald Arseneau observe, \[...\] is the LaTeX way of writing $$...$$. \also may be a Spivey-defined macro. I think rather than understanding the remaining plainTeX constructs, Paul Stanley wants to know what you see if you are able to: At 22:49 15.10.09, P. R. Stanley wrote: >Here's an example of two of them in use taken from The Z Notation: a >Reference Manual by Michael Spivey. > >$birthday$: >\[ > known = \{\,{\rm John, Mike, Susan}\,\} \\ >\also > birthday = \{\,\vtop{\halign{\strut#\hfil&${}\mapsto{}$#\hfil\cr > John& 25--Mar,\cr > Mike& 20--Dec,\cr > Susan& 20--Dec\,\}.\cr}} >\] "Z Notation" seems to be a kind of program language referring to formal logic and set theory, therefore math mode is preferred. Spivey seems to use the primitive \halign because with little typing you get nice tricks. "birthday" seems to refer to a map defined on the set containing John, Mike, and Susan. The notation typesets "birthday:" (in an ugly way, as DA notes), preceding something horizontally centered. This thing first specifies "known" to declare the domain set of the map, using curly braces. Then there is a table describing the map. It has three rows and two columns. \halign is used to automatically insert the mapping left-to-right arrow \mapsto between the two cells of a row. This arrow has a little vertical bar at the left, saying which member of the domain gets which value under the map, not to be confused with the left-to-right arrow declaring domain and codomain of the map. This map "birthday" accordingly maps John to 25--Mar, Mike to 20--Dec, and Susan to the same. A curly brace opens at the left of "John" in the first row, and another closes the third row. \also may be a Z notation symbol that is in a line between the "known" declaration and the first row of the table. like "birthday", "known", "John", "Mike", and "Susan" are typeset in a way they shouldn't be. Hope anybody reads this -- Uwe. From bnb at ams.org Fri Oct 16 15:04:37 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 09:04:37 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4AD82E95.4010907@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD82E95.4010907@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: phil taylor opines, Barbara Beeton wrote: (and Barbara is never wrong) hah! you're saying that with tongue in cheek, i hope! and in fact, there was a glitch in what i wrote -- the regular \strut has height and depth that add up to the dominant baseline separation; the height and depth of a parenthesis apply to \mathstrut . however, the purpose of both is to enforce a minimum separation between lines. > hope that makes sense. this is plain tex, > *very* plain tex. but is it ? On trying to compile it, I am told ! Undefined control sequence. l.2 \[ which rather met my expectations. So what /is/ it, I am forced to ask ?! what i meant, and wasn't as clear as i should have been, is that the \halign construction is plain tex, not the whole example file. it's usually possible to use plain tex constructions within a latex environment (and sometimes absolutely necessary, such as when one is creating some .cls or .sty files), but for an end user, usually not a good idea. P.S. I /was/ going to say that it would be far more comprehensible if greater attention had been paid to layout, but if -- as I suspect -- Paul Stanley is using a speech synthesiser to examine the material, then I am not sure that better layout would help. yes, that's true. thanks for the reminder, phil. this means that the computer file of the texbook (already cited by someone else) is one of the right places for paul to look, although some of it may be tough sledding, since it's an example of using the concepts it's talking about. -- bb From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Fri Oct 16 15:35:32 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 10:35:32 -0300 Subject: [texhax] rounded v in Times In-Reply-To: <19083.12176.519695.48516@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <20090818181308.GA8885@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net>, <19083.12176.519695.48516@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <4AD84C74.21796.EB1A76@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Hello The txfonts option provides the option to set a rounded "v" in math. This can be done locally with "\varv"or in the preample more generally (but then 4 letters will be changed in mathmode). The problem is that there is - AFAIK - no way to get a rounded "v" in the normal text. So an expression like x_{\mathrm v} delivers the standard "v" from txfonts, but not a rounded (upright) one. And "{\mathrm \varv}" does not deliver any an upright letter at all. Is there a simple way to change this? I need the possibility to get an upright rounded "v" in text mode? BTW: a type1-font like Times-Europa (Monotype) has it's "v"s always rounded, but is no choice here because the book would then need more pages (Times-Europa is quite widerunning). Thanks in advance hh From vafa at users.berlios.de Fri Oct 16 10:20:09 2009 From: vafa at users.berlios.de (Vafa Khalighi) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:20:09 +1100 Subject: [texhax] Compiling TeX from source Message-ID: <605202f20910160120x236df1b5w540bbf52fcbff70b@mail.gmail.com> Does anyone know how I can compile tex from its source. I run tangle on tex.web to get the pascal file but when running gpc on tex.p, I get some errors. Thanks -- Vafa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From zdenek.wagner at gmail.com Fri Oct 16 11:38:32 2009 From: zdenek.wagner at gmail.com (Zdenek Wagner) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:38:32 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] Compiling TeX from source In-Reply-To: <605202f20910160120x236df1b5w540bbf52fcbff70b@mail.gmail.com> References: <605202f20910160120x236df1b5w540bbf52fcbff70b@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <8719b6240910160238o75fe38a1s1845b6a0e9eb083a@mail.gmail.com> 2009/10/16 Vafa Khalighi : > Does anyone know how I can compile tex from its source. I run tangle on > tex.web? to get the pascal file but when running gpc on tex.p, I get some > errors. > You may need some patch for your OS. I compiled it from sources only in my TL copy, just by running ./Build --without-xindy in the Build/source directory. I cannot compile xindy because I do not have clisp but Joachim Schrod wrote me some time ago where I can find it. > Thanks > -- > Vafa > -- Zden?k Wagner http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/ http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz From kakuto at fuk.kindai.ac.jp Fri Oct 16 13:28:27 2009 From: kakuto at fuk.kindai.ac.jp (Akira Kakuto) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 20:28:27 +0900 Subject: [texhax] [spam] Re: [tex-live] Compiling TeX from source In-Reply-To: <8719b6240910160238o75fe38a1s1845b6a0e9eb083a@mail.gmail.com> References: <8719b6240910160238o75fe38a1s1845b6a0e9eb083a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <125569250765731400001039@sniffer> > You may need some patch for your OS. Vafa is considering to compile tex.p directly by a Pascal compiler. Best, Akira From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Fri Oct 16 19:50:29 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 19:50:29 +0200 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] Compiling TeX from source In-Reply-To: <8719b6240910160238o75fe38a1s1845b6a0e9eb083a@mail.gmail.com> References: <605202f20910160120x236df1b5w540bbf52fcbff70b@mail.gmail.com> <8719b6240910160238o75fe38a1s1845b6a0e9eb083a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19160.45669.547463.839200@zaphod.ms25.net> On 16 October 2009 Zdenek Wagner wrote: > 2009/10/16 Vafa Khalighi : > > Does anyone know how I can compile tex from its source. I run tangle on > > tex.web? to get the pascal file but when running gpc on tex.p, I get some > > errors. > > > You may need some patch for your OS. I compiled it from sources only > in my TL copy, just by running > > ./Build --without-xindy > > in the Build/source directory. I cannot compile xindy because I do not > have clisp but Joachim Schrod wrote me some time ago where I can find > it. You need two additional libraries. There are detailed instructions in Build/source/utils/README. You can even paste portions of this file into a shell script and the reqired packages will be downloaded automatically. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sat Oct 17 00:21:59 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:21:59 +0100 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pi ne.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> >ok, as Philip Taylor & Donald Arseneau observe, \[...\] is the LaTeX >way of writing $$...$$. \also may be a Spivey-defined macro. I think >rather than understanding the remaining plainTeX constructs, Paul >Stanley wants to know what you see if you are able to: > >> Paul: Correct. for those who don't know already, I am >> registered blind which means that I can't simply run the code >> through the Miktex compiler to find out what the macros do. LaTeX is the most accessible system for typsetting maths but the end result is usually the exact opposite. So any help from the list members is always very welcome Regards Paul From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sat Oct 17 00:38:47 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:38:47 +0100 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4AD82E95.4010907@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD82E95.4010907@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <20091016223834.CXDX22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> P.S. I /was/ going to say that it would be far more comprehensible if greater attention had been paid to layout, but if -- as I suspect -- Paul Stanley is using a speech synthesiser to examine the material, then I am not sure that better layout would help. Paul: Layout isn't hugely important; it's useful to have some perspective of the presentation; however, as you've already indicated, I'm mainly concerned with the implied semantics which I suppose can only be gained through that visual perspective. Cheers Paul From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sat Oct 17 00:44:04 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:44:04 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Knuth's book on plain tex (formerly Help with identifying some macros) In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091016081416.028cb7e0@pop3.web.de> References: <20091015223018.PZDL22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <20091015223018.PZDL22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016081416.028cb7e0@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <20091016224350.CXQR22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> >So this reminds me more of a circle than a paradox. Paul: Hmm, do I detect a slight note of disapproval? :-) Cheers Paul From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sat Oct 17 00:59:48 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Fri, 16 Oct 2009 23:59:48 +0100 Subject: [texhax] the role of the tilde "~" in the set definition Message-ID: <20091016225934.DXKN21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks Here's another one taken from the Spivey text on the z (pronounced zed) language: \[ \{~p: PERSON | age(p) \geq 16~\} \] A simple set definition. Any idea what the "~" is supposed to do? many thanks Paul From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sat Oct 17 02:29:56 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:29:56 +0100 Subject: [texhax] A-HA! style file for spivey's book Message-ID: <20091017002942.NPLL2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks The lblot macro is defined in the style file but the code seems indecipherable. Any pointers would be v v mucho appreciated-o Regards Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: zrm.sty Type: application/octet-stream Size: 27652 bytes Desc: not available URL: From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sat Oct 17 02:29:56 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 01:29:56 +0100 Subject: [texhax] A-HA! style file for spivey's book Message-ID: <20091017020308.SIWJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks The lblot macro is defined in the style file but the code seems indecipherable. Any pointers would be v v mucho appreciated-o Regards Paul -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: zrm.sty Type: application/octet-stream Size: 27652 bytes Desc: not available URL: From kakuto at fuk.kindai.ac.jp Sat Oct 17 04:18:51 2009 From: kakuto at fuk.kindai.ac.jp (Akira Kakuto) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:18:51 +0900 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] Compiling TeX from source In-Reply-To: <605202f20910161643k6aaf1f28u3ae7b0ce6e0145f@mail.gmail.com> References: <605202f20910161643k6aaf1f28u3ae7b0ce6e0145f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <1255745931362405000024d8@sniffer> > > You need two additional libraries. There are detailed instructions in > > Build/source/utils/README. You can even paste portions of this file > > into a shell script and the reqired packages will be downloaded > > automatically. > > > > > > > Thanks. Are you refering to libsigsegv and libffcall? > > After installing these two, I still can not compile it. Reinhard showed how to compile xindy. Please read Philip's answer in the texhax list on tex.p. Best, Akira From vafa at users.berlios.de Sat Oct 17 01:43:22 2009 From: vafa at users.berlios.de (Vafa Khalighi) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 10:43:22 +1100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] Compiling TeX from source In-Reply-To: <19160.45669.547463.839200@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <605202f20910160120x236df1b5w540bbf52fcbff70b@mail.gmail.com> <8719b6240910160238o75fe38a1s1845b6a0e9eb083a@mail.gmail.com> <19160.45669.547463.839200@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <605202f20910161643k6aaf1f28u3ae7b0ce6e0145f@mail.gmail.com> > > You need two additional libraries. There are detailed instructions in > Build/source/utils/README. You can even paste portions of this file > into a shell script and the reqired packages will be downloaded > automatically. > > > Thanks. Are you refering to libsigsegv and libffcall? After installing these two, I still can not compile it. tex.p:1: warning: ignoring BP directive `{$a+}' which is unnecessary in GPC tex.p:1: warning: ignoring BP directive `{$d-}' which is unnecessary in GPC tex.p: In procedure `println': tex.p:306: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p:307: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p:308: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p:308: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p:309: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:309: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once tex.p:309: error: for each routine it appears in.) tex.p:309: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p: In procedure `printchar': tex.p:315: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p:316: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p:323: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `printcs': tex.p:354: warning: Comparison always yields `False' due to limited range of data type. tex.p: In procedure `error': tex.p:402: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p:403: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `fatalerror': tex.p:414: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `overflow': tex.p:419: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `confusion': tex.p:425: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:427: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In function `aopenin': tex.p:432: error: argument 3 to `Reset' must be an integer tex.p:432: error: undeclared identifier `erstat' (first use in this routine) tex.p:432: error: result of function `aopenin' not assigned tex.p: In function `aopenout': tex.p:434: error: argument 3 to `Rewrite' must be an integer tex.p:434: error: undeclared identifier `erstat' (first use in this routine) tex.p:434: error: result of function `aopenout' not assigned tex.p: In function `bopenin': tex.p:435: error: argument 3 to `Reset' must be an integer tex.p:436: error: undeclared identifier `erstat' (first use in this routine) tex.p:436: error: result of function `bopenin' not assigned tex.p: In function `bopenout': tex.p:437: error: argument 3 to `Rewrite' must be an integer tex.p:437: error: undeclared identifier `erstat' (first use in this routine) tex.p:437: error: result of function `bopenout' not assigned tex.p: In function `wopenin': tex.p:438: error: argument 3 to `Reset' must be an integer tex.p:439: error: undeclared identifier `erstat' (first use in this routine) tex.p:439: error: result of function `wopenin' not assigned tex.p: In function `wopenout': tex.p:440: error: argument 3 to `Rewrite' must be an integer tex.p:440: error: undeclared identifier `erstat' (first use in this routine) tex.p:440: error: result of function `wopenout' not assigned tex.p: In function `inputln': tex.p:448: error: argument 1 to `EOLn' must be a `Text' file tex.p:451: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p: In function `initterminal': tex.p:457: error: argument 3 to `Reset' must be an integer tex.p:458: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:458: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p:459: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p:460: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:465: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p: In function `getstringsstarted': tex.p:496: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:500: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:504: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:508: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:512: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:514: error: argument 1 to `EOLn' must be a `Text' file tex.p:516: error: `ReadLn' is allowed only when reading from files of type `Text' tex.p:518: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p: In procedure `terminput': tex.p:535: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p: In procedure `pauseforinstructions': tex.p:548: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `showtokenlist': tex.p:601: warning: Comparison always yields `False' due to limited range of data type. tex.p:605: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `shortdisplay': tex.p:739: warning: Comparison always yields `False' due to limited range of data type. tex.p:748: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `printfontandchar': tex.p:750: warning: Comparison always yields `False' due to limited range of data type. tex.p: In procedure `printsubsidiarydata': tex.p:783: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `printstyle': tex.p:786: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `printskipparam': tex.p:792: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `shownodelist': tex.p:836: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `flushnodelist': tex.p:916: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In function `copynodelist': tex.p:948: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `printparam': tex.p:1023: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `printlengthparam': tex.p:1037: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `printcmdchr': tex.p:1053: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `eqdestroy': tex.p:1232: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `preparemag': tex.p:1280: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1284: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `showcontext': tex.p:1327: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `begintokenlist': tex.p:1356: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `clearforerrorprompt': tex.p:1396: error: undeclared identifier `breakin' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `checkoutervalidity': tex.p:1403: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1404: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1413: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `getnext': tex.p:1477: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1492: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:1498: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p: In procedure `macrocall': tex.p:1565: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1576: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1587: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1595: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `expand': tex.p:1643: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1657: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1664: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:1664: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scanleftbrace': tex.p:1680: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `muerror': tex.p:1694: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scaneightbitint': tex.p:1698: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scancharnum': tex.p:1702: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scanfourbitint': tex.p:1706: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scanfifteenbitint': tex.p:1710: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scantwentysevenbitint': tex.p:1714: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scanfontident': tex.p:1721: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `findfontdimen': tex.p:1735: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scansomethinginternal': tex.p:1746: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1759: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1804: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:1804: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scanint': tex.p:1828: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1842: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1846: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scandimen': tex.p:1880: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1897: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1913: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:1922: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In function `scantoks': tex.p:2002: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2005: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2010: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2024: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `readtoks': tex.p:2045: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `conditional': tex.p:2086: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2116: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `promptfilename': tex.p:2180: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2181: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2182: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2185: error: undeclared identifier `breakin' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `openlogfile': tex.p:2197: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p: In procedure `startinput': tex.p:2219: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p:2223: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In function `readfontinfo': tex.p:2259: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2289: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:2355: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `movement': tex.p:2428: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `writeout': tex.p:2485: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `outwhat': tex.p:2503: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `hlistout': tex.p:2567: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `vlistout': tex.p:2631: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `shipout': tex.p:2648: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p:2653: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:2685: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p: In function `hpack': tex.p:2732: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In function `vpackage': tex.p:2785: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In function `cleanbox': tex.p:2922: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `fetch': tex.p:2936: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `makeord': tex.p:3110: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `mlisttohlist': tex.p:3173: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `initalign': tex.p:3272: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:3288: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:3298: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In function `fincol': tex.p:3336: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `finalign': tex.p:3466: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:3469: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In function `finiteshrink': tex.p:3494: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `trybreak': tex.p:3531: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In function `reconstitute': tex.p:3769: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `newpatterns': tex.p:3925: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:3941: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:3944: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:3944: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:3947: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `linebreak': tex.p:4078: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `newhyphexceptions': tex.p:4154: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4173: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:4173: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In function `prunepagetop': tex.p:4184: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In function `vertbreak': tex.p:4197: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:4212: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In function `vsplit': tex.p:4225: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `ensurevbox': tex.p:4260: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `fireup': tex.p:4274: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4330: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `buildpage': tex.p:4380: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4408: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:4433: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `insertdollarsign': tex.p:4463: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `youcant': tex.p:4465: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `offsave': tex.p:4497: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4500: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4504: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `extrarightbrace': tex.p:4509: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `boxend': tex.p:4538: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `beginbox': tex.p:4560: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4563: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `scanbox': tex.p:4577: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `headforvmode': tex.p:4614: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `begininsertoradjust': tex.p:4622: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `unpackage': tex.p:4654: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `builddiscretionary': tex.p:4683: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4690: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4694: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `alignerror': tex.p:4721: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4728: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4730: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `noalignerror': tex.p:4734: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `omiterror': tex.p:4736: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `cserror': tex.p:4746: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `initmath': tex.p:4770: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `scanmath': tex.p:4800: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `mathlimitswitch': tex.p:4817: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `scandelimiter': tex.p:4823: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:4824: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `mathac': tex.p:4840: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `subsup': tex.p:4883: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4885: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `mathfraction': tex.p:4892: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `mathleftright': tex.p:4911: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `aftermath': tex.p:4927: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4931: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4935: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4943: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4947: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:4961: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `getrtoken': tex.p:5011: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `doregistercommand': tex.p:5023: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5028: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5054: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `alteraux': tex.p:5065: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `alterprevgraf': tex.p:5071: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `newfont': tex.p:5096: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5101: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `prefixedcommand': tex.p:5121: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5125: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5148: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:5159: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5193: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5206: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5217: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `issuemessage': tex.p:5245: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p:5246: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `showwhatever': tex.p:5266: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5268: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p:5269: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5271: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `storefmtfile': tex.p:5282: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p: In procedure `doextension': tex.p:5430: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `handlerightbrace': tex.p:5440: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5462: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5467: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5478: warning: `;' after `then' tex.p:5499: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In procedure `maincontrol': tex.p:5677: error: undeclared identifier `others' (first use in this routine) tex.p: In function `openfmtfile': tex.p:5709: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5709: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5710: error: too many arguments to `Break' tex.p:5712: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p: In function `loadfmtfile': tex.p:5724: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5724: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5727: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5727: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5776: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5776: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5780: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5780: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5822: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5822: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5826: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5826: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:5846: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p: In procedure `closefilesandterminate': tex.p:5901: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p: In main program: tex.p:6067: error: argument 3 to `Rewrite' must be an integer tex.p:6084: error: `WriteLn' is allowed only when writing to files of type `Text' tex.p:6088: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:6089: warning: assignment of string value to char variable tex.p:6090: error: too many arguments to `Break' Thanks -- Vafa -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From daleif at imf.au.dk Sat Oct 17 11:08:48 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:08:48 +0200 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pi ne.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> P. R. Stanley wrote: > >> ok, as Philip Taylor & Donald Arseneau observe, \[...\] is the LaTeX >> way of writing $$...$$. \also may be a Spivey-defined macro. I think >> rather than understanding the remaining plainTeX constructs, Paul >> Stanley wants to know what you see if you are able to: >> >>> Paul: Correct. for those who don't know already, I am >>> registered blind which means that I can't simply run the code through >>> the Miktex compiler to find out what the macros do. > > LaTeX is the most accessible system for typsetting maths but the end > result is usually the exact opposite. So any help from the list members > is always very welcome > > Regards > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org I gave a talk recently for an association of blind people and people working with the blind. One of the things we looked at is representing math in a way such that the blind can read it. One of the ideas is to use the co-called octo-braille to represent ANSII, and then present well prepared LaTeX code for the blind to read. Using standard LaTeX macro names are not that good as they often hide the true meaning of the equation. For example in topology \cong often means isomorphy, so X \isomorph Y gives much better meaning than X \cong Y /daleif From daleif at imf.au.dk Sat Oct 17 11:10:26 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:10:26 +0200 Subject: [texhax] the role of the tilde "~" in the set definition In-Reply-To: <20091016225934.DXKN21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091016225934.DXKN21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4AD98A02.7080005@imf.au.dk> P. R. Stanley wrote: > Hi folks > Here's another one taken from the Spivey text on the z (pronounced zed) > language: > \[ \{~p: PERSON | age(p) \geq 16~\} \] > A simple set definition. Any idea what the "~" is supposed to do? > > many thanks > Paul > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org it usually represents a non-breakable space in math is doesn't really have any meaning, I'm guessing here that the author is misusing it to provide some extra space instead of using a say \ followed by a space. /daleif From hofri at WPI.EDU Sat Oct 17 17:35:28 2009 From: hofri at WPI.EDU (Micha Hofri) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 11:35:28 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] the role of the tilde "~" in the set definition In-Reply-To: <4AD98A02.7080005@imf.au.dk> References: <20091016225934.DXKN21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD98A02.7080005@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: At 11:10 on 10/17/09 Lars Madsen sent: : P. R. Stanley wrote: : > Hi folks : > Here's another one taken from the Spivey text on the z (pronounced zed) : > language: : > \[ \{~p: PERSON | age(p) \geq 16~\} \] : > A simple set definition. Any idea what the "~" is supposed to do? : > : > many thanks : > Paul : > : > _______________________________________________ : > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq : > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ : > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html : > : > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax : > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org : : it usually represents a non-breakable space : : in math is doesn't really have any meaning, I'm guessing here that the author : is misusing it to provide some extra space instead of using a say \ followed : by a space. : : /daleif Why is the use of tilde in math mode a misuse? it is the most keyboard-efficient of getting a controlled spacing. I _think_ it is controlled... Just puzzled, --Micha Hofri : _______________________________________________ : TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq : Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ : More links: http://tug.org/begin.html : : Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax : Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org : : From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sat Oct 17 20:09:55 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 19:09:55 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Making LaTeX more Usable for the blind (Formerly: help )with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pi ne.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <20091017180938.KAGA21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> >daleif: I gave a talk recently for an association of blind people >and people working with the blind. > >One of the things we looked at is representing math in a way such >that the blind can read it. > >One of the ideas is to use the co-called octo-braille to represent >ANSII, and then present well prepared LaTeX code for the blind to read. > >Using standard LaTeX macro names are not that good as they often >hide the true meaning of the equation. > >For example in topology \cong often means isomorphy, so > >X \isomorph Y gives much better meaning than X \cong Y > > > Paul: Yes, a more verbose syntax would help although it's > easy to to go too far the other way, e.g. Java, VB, semantic web. >Personally I think the most speedy way forward would be to have more >descriptive documentation which would not rely on supplementary >visual illustrations. Something that we could all contribute towards >via this list. > >Regards >Paul From tsc25 at cantab.net Sat Oct 17 22:35:55 2009 From: tsc25 at cantab.net (Toby Cubitt) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 21:35:55 +0100 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 11:08:48AM +0200, Lars Madsen wrote: > Using standard LaTeX macro names are not that good as they often > hide the true meaning of the equation. > > For example in topology \cong often means isomorphy, so > > X \isomorph Y gives much better meaning than X \cong Y In this instance, sighted people reading the final typeset version are no better off when it comes to interpreting the maths: they see the visual output of "\cong" and have to decide from context whether that symbol means isomorphism, some form of approximate equality, or whatever else it gets used for. So if authors consistently defined a separate alias (such as \isomorph, \approxeq) for each distinct use of the same symbol (\cong), interpreting the maths would become easier for everyone with access to the LaTeX source, not just blind people. I seem to recall the amsmath guide recommends doing just this. I guess the downside for blind people would be that instead of having to learn a (relatively) small set of standard symbol names, there would be a large set of command names to interpret, many of which would produce the same visual output. It's probably impossible to define standard commands for every possible distinct use of the same mathematical symbol (research papers for example very often have to define new notation as needed for new concepts). So some command names will end up being author-defined, and there's no guarantee everyone will consistently choose the same name for the same thing. In the worst case, interpreting a command would involve finding the macro definition, figuring out what standard command it produces, and *then* figuring out it's mathematical meaning from the standard command anyway. I wonder if we're not better off as we are, with (more or less) a unique command for each unique symbol. Toby -- Dr T. S. Cubitt Quantum Information Theory group Department of Mathematics University of Bristol United Kingdom email: tsc25 at cantab.net web: www.dr-qubit.org From rduval at gmail.com Sat Oct 17 21:50:23 2009 From: rduval at gmail.com (Robert Duval) Date: Sat, 17 Oct 2009 14:50:23 -0500 Subject: [texhax] apostrophe/transpose with subscripts Message-ID: <2b6e342f0910171250h634a18edo37de3537f0aad743@mail.gmail.com> Dear All I want to write a formula of the style X'_nX_n. (note the transpose/apostrophe after the first X) However, as i type this in math mode i get that the subscript n of the first X lies below the one of the second X. I want both subscripts to be at the same height. I could do it by implementing either {X'}_n or {X_n}' but the look of these is not what i want. I really would like the apostrophe above the _n and both subscripts to be at the same height. Any help on how to achieve this would be greatly appreciated thanks. robert From mr_heller at yahoo.dk Sun Oct 18 00:04:45 2009 From: mr_heller at yahoo.dk (Martin Heller) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 00:04:45 +0200 Subject: [texhax] apostrophe/transpose with subscripts In-Reply-To: <2b6e342f0910171250h634a18edo37de3537f0aad743@mail.gmail.com> References: <2b6e342f0910171250h634a18edo37de3537f0aad743@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Robert Duval wrote: > Dear All > > I want to write a formula of the style X'_nX_n. (note the > transpose/apostrophe after the first X) > > However, as i type this in math mode i get that the subscript n of the > first X lies below the one of the second X. > > I want both subscripts to be at the same height. > > I could do it by implementing either > > {X'}_n or {X_n}' > > but the look of these is not what i want. I really would like the > apostrophe above the _n and both subscripts to be at the same height. > > Any help on how to achieve this would be greatly appreciated If it is only this one formula then X'_nX^{}_n should do. If you want to unify the height of sub- and superscripts in all formulas you can use package subdepth . From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sun Oct 18 01:26:35 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 00:26:35 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Quality of Output: PDF v. DVI Message-ID: <20091017232637.UVHJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi The average DVI file is about ten times smaller in size than a PDF. I was wondering, does DVI provide the same output quality standards as its PDF alternative? Thanks Paul From mr_heller at yahoo.dk Sun Oct 18 01:55:01 2009 From: mr_heller at yahoo.dk (Martin Heller) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 01:55:01 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Quality of Output: PDF v. DVI In-Reply-To: <20091017232637.UVHJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091017232637.UVHJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: P. R. Stanley wrote: > Hi > The average DVI file is about ten times smaller in size than a PDF. I > was wondering, does DVI provide the same output quality standards as its > PDF alternative? The dvi file does not have the fonts and images embedded. You need a dvi-driver in order to print the document or generate documents that are useful for electronic distribution. From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sun Oct 18 04:35:27 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 03:35:27 +0100 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks Message-ID: <20091018023529.DHN13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks Is there a difference between ``some text'' and ''some text'' ? miktex doesn't seem to mind either. Thanks Paul From philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it Sun Oct 18 11:58:27 2009 From: philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it (Philip G. Ratcliffe) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 11:58:27 +0200 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks In-Reply-To: <20091018023529.DHN13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> > Hi folks > Is there a difference between > ``some text'' > and > ''some text'' > ? Did you look carefully at the output? The first gives opening quotation marks on the left (as one would wish) while the second only giives closing marks. > miktex doesn't seem to mind either. Well, MiKTeX doesn't know about grammatically correct use of quotation marks. Cheers, Phil From daleif at imf.au.dk Sun Oct 18 13:24:24 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:24:24 +0200 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> Message-ID: <4ADAFAE8.9080206@imf.au.dk> Toby Cubitt wrote: > On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 11:08:48AM +0200, Lars Madsen wrote: >> Using standard LaTeX macro names are not that good as they often >> hide the true meaning of the equation. >> >> For example in topology \cong often means isomorphy, so >> >> X \isomorph Y gives much better meaning than X \cong Y > > In this instance, sighted people reading the final typeset version are no > better off when it comes to interpreting the maths: they see the visual > output of "\cong" and have to decide from context whether that symbol > means isomorphism, some form of approximate equality, or whatever else it > gets used for. > > So if authors consistently defined a separate alias (such as \isomorph, > \approxeq) for each distinct use of the same symbol (\cong), interpreting > the maths would become easier for everyone with access to the LaTeX > source, not just blind people. I seem to recall the amsmath guide > recommends doing just this. > > I guess the downside for blind people would be that instead of having to > learn a (relatively) small set of standard symbol names, there would be a > large set of command names to interpret, many of which would produce the > same visual output. not really, because the naming should show the mathematical meaning of the symbol, not describing how it looks. Such that when reading the code the equation starts to resemble how it is actually read out loud. Think of the scrolling text green from the Matrix movie. > It's probably impossible to define standard commands > for every possible distinct use of the same mathematical symbol (research > papers for example very often have to define new notation as needed for > new concepts). So some command names will end up being author-defined, > and there's no guarantee everyone will consistently choose the same name > for the same thing. In the worst case, interpreting a command would > involve finding the macro definition, figuring out what standard command > it produces, and *then* figuring out it's mathematical meaning from the > standard command anyway. > > I wonder if we're not better off as we are, with (more or less) a unique > command for each unique symbol. > The problem is that the meaning of the expression gets lost, we are doing a visual representaion of an equation, but the underlying meaning is lost. For example where I work some people use the notation X \sim N(0,1) to say taht X is a stochastic variable which has a normal distribution, whereas x \sim\sim N(0,1) is an observation from such a variable. Reading that makes no sense at all, but using better names for symbols it becomes much more readable. X \DistAs N(0,1) x \ObsFromDist N(0,1) One should also think not jsut of the reader, but also co-authors, using better more descriptive names for macros makes cooperation a lot easier, and perhaps we will get rid of a lot of the mess people are doing be using there very short non-descriptive macro names, that I know scare most journal editors. /daleif From daleif at imf.au.dk Sun Oct 18 13:26:43 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:26:43 +0200 Subject: [texhax] the role of the tilde "~" in the set definition In-Reply-To: References: <20091016225934.DXKN21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD98A02.7080005@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <4ADAFB73.5010905@imf.au.dk> Micha Hofri wrote: > At 11:10 on 10/17/09 Lars Madsen sent: > > : P. R. Stanley wrote: > : > Hi folks > : > Here's another one taken from the Spivey text on the z (pronounced zed) > : > language: > : > \[ \{~p: PERSON | age(p) \geq 16~\} \] > : > A simple set definition. Any idea what the "~" is supposed to do? > : > > : > many thanks > : > Paul > : > > : > _______________________________________________ > : > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > : > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > : > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > : > > : > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > : > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org > : > : it usually represents a non-breakable space > : > : in math is doesn't really have any meaning, I'm guessing here that the author > : is misusing it to provide some extra space instead of using a say \ followed > : by a space. > : > : /daleif > > > Why is the use of tilde in math mode a misuse? it is the most > keyboard-efficient of getting a controlled spacing. I _think_ it is > controlled... > > Just puzzled, --Micha Hofri > well having seen people write \begin{align*} A &= long equation\\ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ + B \end{align*} that is just nasty /daleif From daleif at imf.au.dk Sun Oct 18 13:34:49 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 13:34:49 +0200 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks In-Reply-To: <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> References: <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> Message-ID: <4ADAFD59.5090205@imf.au.dk> Philip G. Ratcliffe wrote: >> Hi folks >> Is there a difference between >> ``some text'' >> and >> ''some text'' >> ? > > Did you look carefully at the output? The first gives opening quotation > marks on the left (as one would wish) while the second only giives closing > marks. > as far as I can gather from the other messages Paul is legally blind, so looking at the output is a bit difficult BTW: Paul, have you ever heard of robobraille.org? As for the quotation marks, the reason they are different is that in type we often use two different marks for the quotations, one to open it and one to close it afterwards. This even depends on language. You might even see `" and '" being used. With ''word'' there is no distinction between the opening and the closing mark. A much more readable solution is to use the csquote package, and its \enquote (might be another name), then it is much more clearly marked that \enquote{some text} is enclosed in quotation marks, and this macro is even language aware, thus auto chooses the appropriate quotation marks for that lanuage. From philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it Sun Oct 18 15:25:00 2009 From: philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it (Philip G. Ratcliffe) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:25:00 +0200 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks In-Reply-To: <4ADAFD59.5090205@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <9A9BCE4E92D64E6192322FC268AC09F6@PGR1> > as far as I can gather from the other messages Paul is > legally blind, so Ah, whoops, sorry, I hadn't followed the previous threads so closely. > looking at the output is a bit difficult Cheers, Phil From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sun Oct 18 21:05:44 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:05:44 +0100 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks In-Reply-To: <4ADAFD59.5090205@imf.au.dk> References: <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> <4ADAFD59.5090205@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <20091018190544.BFTA2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> >>> Paul: Is there a difference between >>>``some text'' >>>and >>>''some text'' >>>? >>Did you look carefully at the output? The first gives opening quotation >>marks on the left (as one would wish) while the second only giives closing >>marks. >as far as I can gather from the other messages Paul is legally >blind, so looking at the output is a bit difficult Paul: Yes, I am totally blind and use a screen reader software which is useless with Adobe documents. >BTW: Paul, have you ever heard of robobraille.org? Paul: a long time ago, on BBC Radio 4, there was an interview with a gentleman from Denmark about the project. I'll have a scan of the web site later to see what's on offer. >As for the quotation marks, the reason they are different is that in >type we often use two different marks for the quotations, one to >open it and one to close it afterwards. This even depends on language. Paul: We have the same system in braille. >You might even see `" and '" being used. Paul: what effects do they produce? Are they single quotes, double quotes, opening, closing ...? >A much more readable solution is to use the csquote package, and its >\enquote (might be another name), then it is much more clearly >marked that \enquote{some text} is enclosed in quotation marks, and >this macro is even language aware, thus auto chooses the appropriate >quotation marks for that language. Paul: I'm looking at plain Tex right now. So, let me recap: `` produces a double left quote; ` a single left quote; '' a double right quote; ' a single right quote true, false? Thanks Paul From eduardo at kalinowski.com.br Sun Oct 18 22:18:18 2009 From: eduardo at kalinowski.com.br (Eduardo M KALINOWSKI) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 18:18:18 -0200 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks In-Reply-To: <20091018190544.BFTA2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> <4ADAFD59.5090205@imf.au.dk> <20091018190544.BFTA2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4ADB780A.1010009@kalinowski.com.br> P. R. Stanley wrote: > Paul: I'm looking at plain Tex right now. > So, let me recap: > `` produces a double left quote; > ` a single left quote; > '' a double right quote; > ' a single right quote > true, false? > That's correct, at least for English and other languages that use the same quotes. For other languages there may be different quote symbols. I wouldn't know how to access them in plain TeX, but for LaTeX there are special commands, sometimes requiring extra packages. -- Any man who hates dogs and babies can't be all bad. -- Leo Rosten, on W. C. Fields Eduardo M KALINOWSKI eduardo at kalinowski.com.br From prstanley at ntlworld.com Mon Oct 19 00:26:49 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 23:26:49 +0100 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks Message-ID: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks First off thanks for the help with the previous thread. The question concerns the correct amount of horizontal spacing between a single quote and a double quote mark. for example, ``\thinspace`bla bla'\thinspace'' `\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' or is it `{}``my name is Michael Caine''{}' ``{}`That's a very tasteful peace of work, Miss Emmin'{}'' I suppose the next question is whether the full stop (or period to our North American friends) is simply the "." or some other control sequence. Again, do remember that I'm playing with plain Tex at this moment in time. Thanks Paul From tsc25 at cantab.net Mon Oct 19 00:35:08 2009 From: tsc25 at cantab.net (Toby Cubitt) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 15:35:08 -0700 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4ADAFAE8.9080206@imf.au.dk> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <4ADAFAE8.9080206@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <20091018223508.GA8085@c3po.myhome.westell.com> > >I wonder if we're not better off as we are, with (more or less) a unique > >command for each unique symbol. > > The problem is that the meaning of the expression gets lost, we are > doing a visual representaion of an equation, but the underlying > meaning is lost. > > For example where I work some people use the notation > > X \sim N(0,1) > > to say taht X is a stochastic variable which has a normal > distribution, whereas > > x \sim\sim N(0,1) > > is an observation from such a variable. > > Reading that makes no sense at all, but using better names for > symbols it becomes much more readable. > > X \DistAs N(0,1) > > x \ObsFromDist N(0,1) The trouble is, another author might use some other set of names to mean exactly the same thing, such as X \distributedas N(0,1) X \sampledfrom N(0,1) At least sighted people can easily look at the typeset output and see that these both produce the same notation, which makes it a bit easier to guess that they mean the same thing. A blind person might have to trawl through many layers of LaTeX code to discover that. I always try to define "semantic" aliases for notation, for exactly the reasons you listed, and others too: it makes it clearer for coauthors, it even makes it clearer for myself when I come to read it a few months later! And it lets me easily change the notation if I need to, just by changing one preamble definition. But, not being blind myself, I can't really say what whether the benefits of better symbol names would outweigh the disadvantage of there being many different author-specific variants that mean the same thing. One thing's clear: it wouldn't be a bad idea if authors put some consideration into making LaTeX readable for blind people. (At least, it's not something that had ever occurred to me before the discussions on this list.) Toby -- Dr T. S. Cubitt Quantum Information Theory group Department of Mathematics University of Bristol United Kingdom email: tsc25 at cantab.net web: www.dr-qubit.org From alan at alphabyte.co.nz Mon Oct 19 00:53:15 2009 From: alan at alphabyte.co.nz (Alan Litchfield) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:53:15 +1300 Subject: [texhax] apacite for apa 6th? Message-ID: Is anyone working on updating apacite for the 6th edition of APA? Cheers Alan -- Alan Litchfield MBus (Hons), MNZCS AlphaByte PO Box 1941, Auckland http://www.alphabyte.co.nz From prstanley at ntlworld.com Mon Oct 19 01:36:29 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:36:29 +0100 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091018223508.GA8085@c3po.myhome.westell.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <4ADAFAE8.9080206@imf.au.dk> <20091018223508.GA8085@c3po.myhome.westell.com> Message-ID: <20091018233628.UIUI21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> > > >I wonder if we're not better off as we are, with (more or less) a unique > > >command for each unique symbol. > > > > The problem is that the meaning of the expression gets lost, we are > > doing a visual representaion of an equation, but the underlying > > meaning is lost. > > > > For example where I work some people use the notation > > > > X \sim N(0,1) > > > > to say taht X is a stochastic variable which has a normal > > distribution, whereas > > > > x \sim\sim N(0,1) > > > > is an observation from such a variable. > > > > Reading that makes no sense at all, but using better names for > > symbols it becomes much more readable. > > > > X \DistAs N(0,1) > > > > x \ObsFromDist N(0,1) > >The trouble is, another author might use some other set of names to mean >exactly the same thing, such as > >X \distributedas N(0,1) > >X \sampledfrom N(0,1) > >At least sighted people can easily look at the typeset output and see >that these both produce the same notation, which makes it a bit easier to >guess that they mean the same thing. A blind person might have to trawl >through many layers of LaTeX code to discover that. > >I always try to define "semantic" aliases for notation, for exactly the >reasons you listed, and others too: it makes it clearer for coauthors, it >even makes it clearer for myself when I come to read it a few months >later! And it lets me easily change the notation if I need to, just by >changing one preamble definition. > >But, not being blind myself, I can't really say what whether the benefits >of better symbol names would outweigh the disadvantage of there being >many different author-specific variants that mean the same thing. > >One thing's clear: it wouldn't be a bad idea if authors put some >consideration into making LaTeX readable for blind people. (At least, >it's not something that had ever occurred to me before the discussions on >this list.) Paul: The current system of naming control sequences/macros isn't so much a problem as the lack of comprehensive and descriptive documentation. Braille is very similar to LaTeX in a sense that the same symbols (dot combos) are used to represent different functions right across the various codes: music, maths, literacy etc. For example, all six dots, assuming we are using the 6-dot system,, represent the letter sequence "for" in grade II literacy braille, the equal sign in grade 0 (computer braille) and the f with a semibreve or semiquaver value in music. I'm sure there are other uses that I've forgotten. Of course, one would identify the specific function of the symbol based on the context in which it appears. The point being that most braillists would've been through the process of adjusting to the idea of an elaborate typsetting system with overloaded symbols in their formative years. Regards Paul From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Mon Oct 19 02:43:56 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 02:43:56 +0200 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> On 18 October 2009 P. R. Stanley wrote: > Hi folks > First off > thanks for the help with the previous thread. > The question concerns the correct amount of horizontal spacing > between a single quote and a double quote mark. for example, > ``\thinspace`bla bla'\thinspace'' > `\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' > or is it \thinspace is a bit too large, IMO. > `{}``my name is Michael Caine''{}' This looks fine, but > ``{}`That's a very tasteful peace of work, Miss Emmin'{}'' here the braces don't have any effect. I'm clueless... > I suppose the next question is whether the full stop (or period to > our North American friends) is simply the "." or some other control > sequence. Again, do remember that I'm playing with plain Tex at > this moment in time. Yes, a full stop is simply the ".". However, the space after the full stop is usually larger than the normal interword space. You don't want this extra space after an abbreviation. You have to say abrr.\ some text in this case in order to get normal interword glue. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From doc.evans at gmail.com Mon Oct 19 04:19:24 2009 From: doc.evans at gmail.com (D. R. Evans) Date: Sun, 18 Oct 2009 20:19:24 -0600 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <4ADBCCAC.9070907@gmail.com> Reinhard Kotucha said the following at 10/18/2009 06:43 PM : > Yes, a full stop is simply the ".". However, the space after the full > stop is usually larger than the normal interword space. You don't > want this extra space after an abbreviation. You have to say > > abrr.\ some text > > in this case in order to get normal interword glue. Or turn on \frenchspacing. Doc -- Web: http://www.sff.net/people/N7DR -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 260 bytes Desc: OpenPGP digital signature URL: From axel.retif at mac.com Mon Oct 19 07:57:07 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 00:57:07 -0500 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: On 18 Oct, 2009, at 19:43, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > On 18 October 2009 P. R. Stanley wrote: > >> Hi folks >> First off >> thanks for the help with the previous thread. >> The question concerns the correct amount of horizontal spacing >> between a single quote and a double quote mark. for example, >> ``\thinspace`bla bla'\thinspace'' >> `\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' >> or is it > > \thinspace is a bit too large, IMO. Of course one can make additional kerning spaces ? la \thinspace. I usually use two extra positive thin spaces: \def\fino{\kern 0.1em } \def\finito{\kern 0.05em } (\fino from Spanish ``thin'' and \finito from ``very thin'') and one negative: \def\finoneg{\kern -0.1em } In (La)TeX, \thinspace is defines as {\kern .16667em }. The space between the dimension and the closing bracket *does* matter. Best, Axel From prstanley at ntlworld.com Mon Oct 19 09:29:41 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 08:29:41 +0100 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <20091019072940.ELNT2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> What does the "em" in the definition stand for? Thanks Paul At 06:57 19/10/2009, you wrote: >On 18 Oct, 2009, at 19:43, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: > >>On 18 October 2009 P. R. Stanley wrote: >> >>>Hi folks >>>First off >>>thanks for the help with the previous thread. >>>The question concerns the correct amount of horizontal spacing >>>between a single quote and a double quote mark. for example, >>>``\thinspace`bla bla'\thinspace'' >>>`\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' >>>or is it >> >>\thinspace is a bit too large, IMO. > >Of course one can make additional kerning spaces ? la \thinspace. I >usually use two extra positive thin spaces: > >\def\fino{\kern 0.1em } >\def\finito{\kern 0.05em } > >(\fino from Spanish ``thin'' and \finito from ``very thin'') > >and one negative: > >\def\finoneg{\kern -0.1em } > >In (La)TeX, \thinspace is defines as {\kern .16667em }. The space >between the dimension and the closing bracket *does* matter. > > >Best, > >Axel > >_______________________________________________ >TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > >Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From daleif at imf.au.dk Mon Oct 19 11:07:07 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 11:07:07 +0200 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks In-Reply-To: <20091018190544.BFTA2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> <4ADAFD59.5090205@imf.au.dk> <20091018190544.BFTA2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4ADC2C3B.4020005@imf.au.dk> P. R. Stanley wrote: > >>>> Paul: Is there a difference between >>>> ``some text'' >>>> and >>>> ''some text'' >>>> ? >>> Did you look carefully at the output? The first gives opening quotation >>> marks on the left (as one would wish) while the second only giives >>> closing >>> marks. > >> as far as I can gather from the other messages Paul is legally blind, >> so looking at the output is a bit difficult > > Paul: Yes, I am totally blind and use a screen reader software > which is useless with Adobe documents. > >> BTW: Paul, have you ever heard of robobraille.org? > > Paul: a long time ago, on BBC Radio 4, there was an interview > with a gentleman from Denmark about the project. I'll have a scan of the > web site later to see what's on offer. > > as far as what I gathered from his talk at the conference where I gave my presentation, you can simply send a file to robobraille by email, and get a more accessible version back, or even get a link to a sound file where it is being read out loud. I was very impressed. (though no math support yet) /daleif From asnd at triumf.ca Mon Oct 19 11:50:00 2009 From: asnd at triumf.ca (Donald Arseneau) Date: 19 Oct 2009 02:50:00 -0700 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4ADAFAE8.9080206@imf.au.dk> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <4ADAFAE8.9080206@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: Lars Madsen writes: > not really, because the naming should show the mathematical meaning of the > symbol, not describing how it looks. What? I thought LaTeX3 would have / | / as its integral command. :-) ... I wonder how modern speech synthesis programs "read aloud" such visual emoticons. Donald Arseneau asnd at triumf.ca From axel.retif at mac.com Mon Oct 19 11:56:54 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 04:56:54 -0500 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: <20091019072940.ELNT2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> <20091019072940.ELNT2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <77049339-B504-4A3F-BF6C-DCF532CC0E41@mac.com> On 19 Oct, 2009, at 02:29, P. R. Stanley wrote: > What does the "em" in the definition stand for? It's a measure relative to the size of the font you're using ---for a 10 point size is roughly 10 points, for a 12 point size it's 12 points, etc. It's the best way to define certain dimensions, like thinspace or parindent. Best, Axel > Thanks > Paul > At 06:57 19/10/2009, you wrote: >> On 18 Oct, 2009, at 19:43, Reinhard Kotucha wrote: >> >>> On 18 October 2009 P. R. Stanley wrote: >>> >>>> Hi folks >>>> First off >>>> thanks for the help with the previous thread. >>>> The question concerns the correct amount of horizontal spacing >>>> between a single quote and a double quote mark. for example, >>>> ``\thinspace`bla bla'\thinspace'' >>>> `\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' >>>> or is it >>> >>> \thinspace is a bit too large, IMO. >> >> Of course one can make additional kerning spaces ? la \thinspace. I >> usually use two extra positive thin spaces: >> >> \def\fino{\kern 0.1em } >> \def\finito{\kern 0.05em } >> >> (\fino from Spanish ``thin'' and \finito from ``very thin'') >> >> and one negative: >> >> \def\finoneg{\kern -0.1em } >> >> In (La)TeX, \thinspace is defines as {\kern .16667em }. The space >> between the dimension and the closing bracket *does* matter. >> >> >> Best, >> >> Axel >> >> _______________________________________________ >> TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >> Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >> More links: http://tug.org/begin.html >> >> Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >> Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From asnd at triumf.ca Mon Oct 19 12:08:12 2009 From: asnd at triumf.ca (Donald Arseneau) Date: 19 Oct 2009 03:08:12 -0700 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks In-Reply-To: <20091018190544.BFTA2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> <4ADAFD59.5090205@imf.au.dk> <20091018190544.BFTA2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: "P. R. Stanley" writes: > >You might even see `" and '" being used. > > Paul: what effects do they produce? Are they single quotes, double quotes, > opening, closing ...? I don't think you will see, errrm encounter, those combinations, but rather "` and "'. That would be with LaTeX plus the babel package where the language support for some languages makes the double-quote character active, and uses it as a prefix to generate all sorts of special characters or even hyphenation points. For example, german support makes "` a german left lowered quote, which looks like ,, (comma comma). > Paul: I'm looking at plain Tex right now. > So, let me recap: > `` produces a double left quote; > ` a single left quote; > '' a double right quote; > ' a single right quote Yes. So you're not going to get the LaTeX babel specials in plain TeX, where the double quote is a plain character. In the plain "cm" fonts, it corresponds to a double right quote, but other fonts have a double upright (symmetric) quote in that character position. -- Donald Arseneau asnd at triumf.ca From uwe.lueck at web.de Mon Oct 19 15:05:13 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:05:13 +0200 Subject: [texhax] substituting the right keyboard symbols for quote marks In-Reply-To: <4ADAFD59.5090205@imf.au.dk> References: <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> <5F0B26848E914EF0BF463F8FABEF0A14@PGR1> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091019081752.0264a6a0@pop3.web.de> At 13:34 18.10.09, Lars Madsen wrote: >>>Paul Stanley: >>>Is there a difference between >>>``some text'' >>>and >>>''some text'' >>>? >You might even see `" and '" being used. Really? Where? Or is this a confusion with german.sty/babel-german, where the double quote """ is active and has "`" or "'" as argument to generate German double quotes? -- In the meantime I misread your sentence as You might even see ``' and `'' begin used. quoting single quotes using single quotes ... Cheers, Uwe. From uwe.lueck at web.de Mon Oct 19 15:11:49 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 15:11:49 +0200 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4ADAFAE8.9080206@imf.au.dk> References: <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> At 13:24 18.10.09, Lars Madsen wrote: >[...] the naming should show the mathematical meaning of the symbol, not >describing how it looks. Such that when reading the code the equation >starts to resemble how it is actually read out loud. At this point I just would like to know: do you read out loud "cap" and "cup", or do you say something like "union of" or "intersection of", resembling the German reading out loud? -- Uwe. From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Mon Oct 19 22:46:16 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 22:46:16 +0200 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: <4ADBCCAC.9070907@gmail.com> References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> <4ADBCCAC.9070907@gmail.com> Message-ID: <19164.53272.811760.900283@zaphod.ms25.net> On 18 October 2009 D. R. Evans wrote: > Reinhard Kotucha said the following at 10/18/2009 06:43 PM : > > > Yes, a full stop is simply the ".". However, the space after the full > > stop is usually larger than the normal interword space. You don't > > want this extra space after an abbreviation. You have to say > > > > abrr.\ some text > > > > in this case in order to get normal interword glue. > > Or turn on \frenchspacing. \frenchspacing should be turned on globally only if you write in a language where the space after a period should not be enlarged. Is \frenchspacing used in the UK? > Web: http://www.sff.net/people/N7DR Doc, what means N7DR here? Sounds like an amateur radio call sign. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From karl at freefriends.org Tue Oct 20 00:23:36 2009 From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:23:36 -0500 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <4AD84875.4030706@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <200910192223.n9JMNaR25818@f7.net> I see (for example) 7t, 8c, 8r, 8t, 8y and http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/info/fontname/html/Variants.html It is certainly far from perfect or complete or authoritative, but it is I can point you at today. There are no links to .enc or .etx files for these in the document, although I believe some exist, in particular font packages (Latin Modern, Inconsolata). I know that is vague and imprecise but it's what I have to offer. Sorry. even an 8rn, 8r is the encoding. n is the width (narrow). a reference to an authoritative document describing these ? Everyone makes their own decisions, so nothing is authoritative. That's the reality. From listensammler at gmx.net Mon Oct 19 17:42:57 2009 From: listensammler at gmx.net (Mathias Bauer) Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2009 17:42:57 +0200 Subject: [texhax] vanishing tab characters and docstrip Message-ID: <20091019154257.GA15829@gmx.net> Hello list! With docstrip and the package doc, I want to generate commented Makefile code (and code using other programming languages, too) instead of LaTeX code. Running either tex or latex on the .ins installation file latex test.ins kills all tab characters at the beginning of a line. Because of the Makefile syntax requiring tab characters at the beginning of some lines, docstrip's behaviour is unsolicited and in some sense "erroneous". Here are the two files of a minmalistic example, the .ins installation file `test.ins' and the .dtx documented source code file `test.dtx': ----------snip---------- test.ins ----------snip---------- \input docstrip % ---------- Misc ---------- %\keepsilent% %\showprogress% %\askforoverwritefalse% %\askforoverwritetrue% % ---------- LaTeX driver ---------- \generate{\file{test-driver.tex}{\from{test.dtx}{driver}}}% % ---------- Makefile ---------- % Trick from bibexports {\catcode`\#=12% \gdef\DoubleSharp{##}}% \let\MetaPrefix\DoubleSharp% \preamble% Preamble for the Makefile. \endpreamble% % Trick from apacite \edef\noendinputpostamble{% \MetaPrefix ^^J% \MetaPrefix\space End of `\outFileName'.}% \generate{\usepostamble\noendinputpostamble% \file{test-makefile.txt}{\from{test.dtx}{makefile}}}% \endbatchfile ----------snap---------- test.ins ----------snap---------- and ----------snip---------- test.dtx ----------snip---------- % \iffalse %<*driver> \ProvidesFile{test.dtx}% \documentclass{article}% \usepackage{doc}% \AlsoImplementation\CodelineIndex\listfiles \begin{document}\DocInput{test.dtx}\end{document}% % % \fi % Documentation\ldots % \StopEventually{} % Implementation\ldots % \begin{macrocode} %<*makefile> # Lines starting with tab character: all: echo Hello world! @echo Hello world again! printf "Hello\tworld!\n" # Lines starting with blanks: one two three % % \end{macrocode} % \Finale ----------snap---------- test.dtx ----------snap---------- Searching for an explanation of docstrip's behavior, I looked into docstrip.tex and its documentation. There, the macro \readsource (l. 584) reads the .dtx documented TeX file line after line and calls \processLine (l. 344). \processLine uses \normalLine (l. 314+) - and all seems to be very unsuspicious to me. \def\normalLine#1\endLine{% \maybeMsg{.}% \def\inLine{#1}% \let\do\putline at do \activefiles } Then the macro \putline at do is executed \def\putline at do#1#2#3{% \StreamPut#1{\inLine}} and finally the real work is be done by \StreamPut (l. 203): \def\StreamPut{\immediate\write} I didn't find any implementation of \immediate or \write either in docstrip.tex nor in the whole LaTeX code (source2e), so it seems to be pure TeX (which I didn't know much about). But where in this whole process the tab characters vanish? How can I avoid docstrip killing tab characters at the input line's beginning? Can anybody give me a hint? Many thanks in advance, Mathias From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 20 10:33:57 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:33:57 +0100 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <200910192223.n9JMNaR25818@f7.net> References: <200910192223.n9JMNaR25818@f7.net> Message-ID: <4ADD75F5.0@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Karl Berry wrote: > I see (for example) 7t, 8c, 8r, 8t, 8y and > > http://www.tex.ac.uk/tex-archive/info/fontname/html/Variants.html > It is certainly far from perfect or complete or authoritative, but it > is [all] I can point you at today. Fine, thanks Karl : a very useful document. > There are no links to .enc or .etx files for these in the document, > although I believe some exist, in particular font packages (Latin > Modern, Inconsolata). I know that is vague and imprecise but it's what > I have to offer. Sorry. That doesn't matter : I suspect such files would work only with LaTeX, and what I am looking for is sufficient information to update my PS-Fonts suite (unpublished, last updated 1994, based on the ArborText names, TFM files and driver) to be useable with PdfTeX under TeX Live. PS-Fonts is intended for use with Plain TeX, or even with IniTeX with a little additional work. > Everyone makes their own decisions, so nothing is authoritative. > That's the reality. Er, yes : why is it that the word "anarchy" springs unbidden to mind ?! ** Phil. From daleif at imf.au.dk Tue Oct 20 10:56:27 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:56:27 +0200 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> References: <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> Uwe L?ck wrote: > At 13:24 18.10.09, Lars Madsen wrote: >> [...] the naming should show the mathematical meaning of the symbol, >> not describing how it looks. Such that when reading the code the >> equation starts to resemble how it is actually read out loud. > > At this point I just would like to know: do you read out loud "cap" and > "cup", or do you say something like "union of" or "intersection of", > resembling the German reading out loud? > > -- Uwe. > I would rename them into something like \union and \intersection, X \cap Y does not make any sense. The major problem is that texts prepared for blind to read, needs to be written with a blind audience in mind. At least naming symbols in a way such that equations make sense when spoken, then one does not actually need to know that many symbols. /daleif From prstanley at ntlworld.com Tue Oct 20 11:24:58 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:24:58 +0100 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> References: <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <20091020092454.CHGR13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi Just thought the list might benefit from a repeat of the points below coming from a totally blind LaTeX user: Paul: The current system of naming control sequences/macros isn't so much a problem as the lack of comprehensive and descriptive documentation. Braille is very similar to LaTeX in a sense that the same symbols (dot combos) are used to represent different functions right across the various codes: music, maths, literacy etc. For example, all six dots, assuming we are using the 6-dot system,, represent the letter sequence "for" in grade II literacy braille, the equal sign in grade 0 (computer braille) and the f with a semibreve or semiquaver value in music. I'm sure there are other uses that I've forgotten. Of course, one would identify the specific function of the symbol based on the context in which it appears. The point being that most braillists would've been through the process of adjusting to the idea of an elaborate typsetting system with overloaded symbols in their formative years. Regards Paul At 09:56 20/10/2009, you wrote: >Uwe L?ck wrote: >>At 13:24 18.10.09, Lars Madsen wrote: >>>[...] the naming should show the mathematical meaning of the >>>symbol, not describing how it looks. Such that when reading the >>>code the equation starts to resemble how it is actually read out loud. >>At this point I just would like to know: do you read out loud "cap" >>and "cup", or do you say something like "union of" or "intersection >>of", resembling the German reading out loud? >>-- Uwe. > >I would rename them into something like \union and \intersection, X >\cap Y does not make any sense. > >The major problem is that texts prepared for blind to read, needs to >be written with a blind audience in mind. > >At least naming symbols in a way such that equations make sense when >spoken, then one does not actually need to know that many symbols. > >/daleif >_______________________________________________ >TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > >Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From vi5u0-texhax at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 20 13:15:17 2009 From: vi5u0-texhax at yahoo.co.uk (Dan Hatton) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 12:15:17 +0100 (BST) Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> References: <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > I would rename them into something like \union and \intersection, X \cap Y > does not make any sense. On the other hand, I use them mainly not for set theory, but for describing curves as "convex $\cup$" or "concave $\cap$", in which case the existing names are sensible. -- Regards, Dan From vivrii at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 13:30:28 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:30:28 -0400 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Dan Hatton wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > >> I would rename them into something like \union and \intersection, X \cap Y >> does not make any sense. Well then one will need to rename all their derivatives (and pseudoderivatives) as well including \Cup and \sqdoublecap or maybe even \Coffeecup and \Capricorn (should we?) Sure if we had a time machine we could give better names from the very beginning but now we can only create a royal mess and pain Victor -- ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Tue Oct 20 13:34:54 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 09:34:54 -0200 Subject: [texhax] Reading file by machines Message-ID: <4ADD843E.6494.34A1A2@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Hello, at the moment - the german book fair was certainly a suitable propagation place - machines are offered for reading books on a screen. But what happens if someone wants to "hear" the book? If the machine can't do it now, in the future they will quite certainly be able to do that. But what happens with scientific books? If you have something which appears printed as "320 kJ/kmol" or 1?C, how that will be read? I'm aware that packages like "siunitx" might be the source of a solution as - when using them - you have to write "\SI{320}{\kilojoule\per\kilomole}" or \SI1\degreecelsius. Which in of course seems much more suitable to be transformed in some kind of voice readable (unvisible) text. Question: Was anything done already to make the voice reading (by machine) of scientific text to a person more easy? Is there any information available? Or is this too far for TeX? With regards hh From vivrii at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 13:42:29 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 07:42:29 -0400 Subject: [texhax] Reading file by machines In-Reply-To: <4ADD843E.6494.34A1A2@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> References: <4ADD843E.6494.34A1A2@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: <19af81400910200442y1fe4644fv167514de2aa4e30e@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:34 AM, hh wrote: > Hello, > > at the moment - the german book fair was certainly a suitable > propagation place - machines are offered for reading books on a > screen. > > But what happens if someone wants to "hear" the book? If the machine > can't do it now, in the future they will quite certainly be able to > do that. > > But what happens with scientific books? If you have something which > appears printed as "320 kJ/kmol" or 1?C, how that will be read? pdf ActualText (see accsupp package by Heiko Oberdiek). It is not only science - one does not want to hear Mr. or Dr. either Victor -- ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From bnb at ams.org Tue Oct 20 16:32:25 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 10:32:25 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Victor Ivrii wrote: On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Dan Hatton wrote: > On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > >> I would rename them into something like \union and \intersection, X \cap Y >> does not make any sense. Well then one will need to rename all their derivatives (and pseudoderivatives) as well including \Cup and \sqdoublecap or maybe even \Coffeecup and \Capricorn (should we?) Sure if we had a time machine we could give better names from the very beginning but now we can only create a royal mess and pain the particular names in question were assigned by don knuth. this is only a hypothesis, but i believe that he was following a long tradition of proofreaders to use the names \cup and \cap. if this is so, then i seriously doubt that any change would be be likely, particularly in light of the alternate meanings that have been pointed out. it might be noted that in fact there *are* some alternate names for some symbols, either because they are in different classes: \triangle, \bigtriangleup \backslash, \setminus or for some other reason: \ne, \neq \ni, \owns \wedge, \land \vee, \lor \neg, \lnot this list obviously favors knuth's own needs, but it shows that there is no built-in prejudice against multiple names. my guess is that \ne and \ni are so similar that the ease of finding typos in a file where both are used would be more important than ease of typing, and for the logical operators, the clarity of meaning would be the deciding factor for which was used. special-purpose packages have renamed quite a few symbols for the sake of clarified meaning (i'm thinking here of the zed package). the important thing is to avoid re-use of names that have already been assigned. but authors seem to prefer ease of typing to clarity of content. this wreaks havoc in the ams production system, where fully linked, on-line posting of journal articles requires use of hyperref -- which redefines a very large number of the "short names". so these all have to be changed by hand, leading to the possibility of introduced errors. no amount of warnings against not redefining one- or two-letter names seems to have any effect. (this has gotten off the original topic, for which i apologize, but if anyone has a compelling argument that will convince authors that "clarity is better than brevity", i'll be delighted to learn it. i also apologize to authors with limited manual capability, but there are other ways to get around that, like editors with abbreviation-expansion features.) -- bb From vivrii at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 19:42:59 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:42:59 -0400 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19af81400910201042p4214fbb8h35bc55f84683b344@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Barbara Beeton wrote: > ?\ni, If there is \ni, there should be also \ot but there is not! > which i apologize, but if anyone has > a compelling argument that will convince > authors that "clarity is better than > brevity", i'll be delighted to learn it. > i also apologize to authors with limited > manual capability, but there are other > ways to get around that, like editors > with abbreviation-expansion features.) I am a very slow typer (albeit my kids claim that I am incredibly fast for 1.5 fingers I use) but still thinking what to type takes me much much longer than to type, and retype and retype again. I presume that people who want brevity do not think what to type and belong to the following classes (a) authors with limited manual capacity (b) secretaries (c) obfuscators (d) bullshitters. :-) I suspect that each subsequent class is much larger than the previous one Victor > ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?-- bb > -- ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From prstanley at ntlworld.com Tue Oct 20 19:45:47 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 18:45:47 +0100 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <20091020174542.FLRU2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Sorry, what is "limited manual capability"? Paul At 15:32 20/10/2009, you wrote: >On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Victor Ivrii wrote: > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 7:15 AM, Dan Hatton > wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Oct 2009, Lars Madsen wrote: > > > >> I would rename them into something like \union and > \intersection, X \cap Y > >> does not make any sense. > > Well then one will need to rename all their derivatives (and > pseudoderivatives) as well including \Cup and \sqdoublecap or maybe > even \Coffeecup and \Capricorn (should we?) > Sure if we had a time machine we could give better names from the very > beginning but now we can only create a royal mess and pain > >the particular names in question were >assigned by don knuth. this is only a >hypothesis, but i believe that he was >following a long tradition of proofreaders >to use the names \cup and \cap. if this >is so, then i seriously doubt that any >change would be be likely, particularly >in light of the alternate meanings that >have been pointed out. > >it might be noted that in fact there >*are* some alternate names for some >symbols, either because they are in >different classes: > \triangle, \bigtriangleup > \backslash, \setminus >or for some other reason: > \ne, \neq > \ni, \owns > \wedge, \land > \vee, \lor > \neg, \lnot > >this list obviously favors knuth's own >needs, but it shows that there is no >built-in prejudice against multiple >names. my guess is that \ne and \ni >are so similar that the ease of finding >typos in a file where both are used >would be more important than ease of >typing, and for the logical operators, >the clarity of meaning would be the >deciding factor for which was used. >special-purpose packages have renamed >quite a few symbols for the sake of >clarified meaning (i'm thinking here >of the zed package). the important >thing is to avoid re-use of names >that have already been assigned. > >but authors seem to prefer ease of >typing to clarity of content. this >wreaks havoc in the ams production >system, where fully linked, on-line >posting of journal articles requires >use of hyperref -- which redefines a >very large number of the "short names". >so these all have to be changed by hand, >leading to the possibility of introduced >errors. no amount of warnings against >not redefining one- or two-letter names >seems to have any effect. (this has >gotten off the original topic, for >which i apologize, but if anyone has >a compelling argument that will convince >authors that "clarity is better than >brevity", i'll be delighted to learn it. >i also apologize to authors with limited >manual capability, but there are other >ways to get around that, like editors >with abbreviation-expansion features.) > -- bb >_______________________________________________ >TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > >Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From bnb at ams.org Tue Oct 20 20:04:19 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:04:19 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <20091020174542.FLRU2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> <20091020174542.FLRU2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: Sorry, what is "limited manual capability"? someone with fingers (or hands) missing or crippled, and unable to type well, if at all. -- bb From bnb at ams.org Tue Oct 20 20:18:01 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:18:01 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <19af81400910201042p4214fbb8h35bc55f84683b344@mail.gmail.com> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> <19af81400910201042p4214fbb8h35bc55f84683b344@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: > \ni, If there is \ni, there should be also \ot but there is not! uh, \ni is a pair to \in, and i understand \owns, but what's \ot ? (\to is something quite different, namely \rightarrow.) [...] I am a very slow typer (albeit my kids claim that I am incredibly fast for 1.5 fingers I use) but still thinking what to type takes me much much longer than to type, and retype and retype again. I presume that people who want brevity do not think what to type and belong to the following classes (a) authors with limited manual capacity (b) secretaries (c) obfuscators (d) bullshitters. :-) I suspect that each subsequent class is much larger than the previous one i agree with your ranking. thank you for your vote for clarity over speed. -- bb From vivrii at gmail.com Tue Oct 20 20:28:01 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 14:28:01 -0400 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> <19af81400910201042p4214fbb8h35bc55f84683b344@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19af81400910201128h168b3a6ue693061ac2ed1141@mail.gmail.com> On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 2:18 PM, Barbara Beeton wrote: > ? ?> ?\ni, > > ? ?If there is \ni, there should be also \ot ?but there is not! > > uh, \ni is a pair to \in, and i > understand \owns, but what's \ot ? \ni is inverted \in, so \ot is inverted \to (i.e. \leftarrow). I tried to note that \ni lacks logic > (\to is something quite different, > namely \rightarrow.) > -- ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From karl at freefriends.org Tue Oct 20 20:40:43 2009 From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 13:40:43 -0500 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <4ADD75F5.0@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <200910201840.n9KIehN19747@f7.net> That doesn't matter : I suspect such files would work only with LaTeX 1) I was suggesting looking for .enc and .etx simply for additional information on what the encodings are, rather than about actually using them. 2) .enc files are not related to LaTeX specifically, and are necessary for any remapping to support different encodings at the PostScript level. I.e., they are referred to in psfonts.map. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 20 21:09:38 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:09:38 +0100 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <200910201840.n9KIehN19747@f7.net> References: <200910201840.n9KIehN19747@f7.net> Message-ID: <4ADE0AF2.1020900@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Karl Berry wrote: > That doesn't matter : I suspect such files would work > only with LaTeX > > 1) I was suggesting looking for .enc and .etx simply for additional > information on what the encodings are, rather than about actually > using them. OK, now understood. > 2) .enc files are not related to LaTeX specifically, and are necessary > for any remapping to support different encodings at the PostScript > level. I.e., they are referred to in psfonts.map. Ah, that is interesting : I know nothing about "psfonts.map" and had been intending to use virtual fonts; is it the case that I would not need virtual fonts, PdfTeX being able to re-map fonts on the fly based on information in "psfonts.map" ? ** Phil. From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Tue Oct 20 22:45:14 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:45:14 +0200 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <4ADE0AF2.1020900@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200910201840.n9KIehN19747@f7.net> <4ADE0AF2.1020900@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <19166.8538.615332.928347@zaphod.ms25.net> On 20 October 2009 Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Ah, that is interesting : I know nothing about "psfonts.map" > and had been intending to use virtual fonts; is it the case > that I would not need virtual fonts, PdfTeX being able to > re-map fonts on the fly based on information in "psfonts.map" ? Hi Phil, "psfonts.map" is described in the dvips manual. pdfTeX uses its own map file, "pdftex.map", described in the pdfTeX manual. Both files are quite similar. However, don't edit these files, they are created automatically by updmap[-sys]. I don't know what you intend, but if you change the font encoding, you almost always have to create a new tfm file. At least unless you are talking about monospaced fonts. BTW, if you are using pdfTeX, you can use the primitive \pdfmapline instead of creating map files. If you need assistance, the tex-fonts mailing list is certainly a good place to ask. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 20 23:44:35 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:44:35 +0100 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <19166.8538.615332.928347@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <200910201840.n9KIehN19747@f7.net> <4ADE0AF2.1020900@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19166.8538.615332.928347@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <4ADE2F43.7060700@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Many thanks for the information, Reinhard : very helpful. But one thing confuses me : when you write > I don't know what you intend, but if you change the font encoding, you > almost always have to create a new tfm file. At least unless you are > talking about monospaced fonts. I thought (but it is a long time since I played with such things) that all I would need to do was to create a VP file (virtual property list) specifying one or more base fonts and the necessary mappings, and then convert this to a VF. Have I misunderstood (or mis-remembered) this ? ** Phil. From karl at freefriends.org Tue Oct 20 23:52:11 2009 From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:52:11 -0500 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <4ADE2F43.7060700@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <200910202152.n9KLqBC19127@f7.net> create a VP file ... You can do reencoding with vp/vf. But you do not need to. You can do it purely by creating tfm's and pdftex.map entries (psfonts.map for dvips). This is preferable since it is one less file to get wrong, or for people using obscure drivers to have trouble with. From uwe.lueck at web.de Tue Oct 20 22:45:22 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 22:45:22 +0200 Subject: [texhax] help with identifying some macros In-Reply-To: <19af81400910201042p4214fbb8h35bc55f84683b344@mail.gmail.co m> References: <20091015204931.ZHJJ2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <5.1.0.14.0.20091016141415.028c0360@pop3.web.de> <20091016222147.RUXJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <4AD989A0.6060107@imf.au.dk> <20091017203555.GC7663@c3po> <5.1.0.14.0.20091019150842.02b146f0@pop3.web.de> <4ADD7B3B.6030308@imf.au.dk> <19af81400910200430s198f9373j1ab55baa6fd62837@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091020224243.026218b0@pop3.web.de> \gets, TeXbook p. 438 At 19:42 20.10.09, Victor Ivrii wrote: >On Tue, Oct 20, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Barbara Beeton wrote: > > > \ni, > >If there is \ni, there should be also \ot but there is not! At 20:18 20.10.09, Barbara Beeton wrote: >uh, \ni is a pair to \in, and i >understand \owns, but what's \ot ? >(\to is something quite different, >namely \rightarrow.) \steg -- Uwe. From martin at oneiros.de Wed Oct 21 00:35:02 2009 From: martin at oneiros.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Schr=F6der?=) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 00:35:02 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Reading file by machines In-Reply-To: <4ADD843E.6494.34A1A2@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> References: <4ADD843E.6494.34A1A2@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: <68c491a60910201535sf988a9s184821f7238b41d@mail.gmail.com> 2009/10/20 hh : > Question: Was anything done already to make the voice reading (by > machine) of scientific text to a person more easy? Is there any > information available? Or is this too far for TeX? Eventually we will want to generate PDF/UA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PDF/UA Best Martin From rossello at unict.it Tue Oct 20 19:40:15 2009 From: rossello at unict.it (Damiano Rossello) Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:40:15 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Information about coding Message-ID: <20091020194015.28524m7bmb5onbi8@mbox.unict.it> Dear Sirs, I'm a LaTeX user, but not a programmer. Anyway, I've purchased the mtpro package and find myself disturbed by the layout of curly braces \{ and \}, since I prefer the design in cmr. How can I can change the appeareance of these math delimiter (by using those in cmr) while employing the mtpro package? I thank you in advance for the response, BEST, Damiano. ****************************************************** | Damiano Rossello | | Department of Economics and Quantitative Methods | | University of Catania | | Corso Italia, 55 - I95129 - Catania (Italy) | ****************************************************** ---------------------------------------------------------------- Universit? di Catania - C.E.A. Servizio di Posta Elettronica http://www.cea.unict.it From daleif at imf.au.dk Wed Oct 21 07:32:29 2009 From: daleif at imf.au.dk (Lars Madsen) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 07:32:29 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Information about coding In-Reply-To: <20091020194015.28524m7bmb5onbi8@mbox.unict.it> References: <20091020194015.28524m7bmb5onbi8@mbox.unict.it> Message-ID: <4ADE9CED.8000803@imf.au.dk> Damiano Rossello wrote: > Dear Sirs, > > I'm a LaTeX user, but not a programmer. Anyway, I've purchased the mtpro > package > and find myself disturbed by the layout of curly braces \{ and \}, since > I prefer the design in cmr. How can I can change the appeareance of > these math delimiter (by using those in cmr) while employing the mtpro > package? > > I thank you in advance for the response, > (1) what is mtpro? (2) what exactly is wrong with \{\} in your opinion? /daleif From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 21 10:09:13 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:09:13 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Information about coding In-Reply-To: <4ADE9CED.8000803@imf.au.dk> References: <20091020194015.28524m7bmb5onbi8@mbox.unict.it> <4ADE9CED.8000803@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: <4ADEC1A9.2050603@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Lars Madsen wrote: > (1) what is mtpro? Probably http://www.movabletype.org/ Philip Taylor From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 21 10:13:49 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:13:49 +0100 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <200910202152.n9KLqBC19127@f7.net> References: <200910202152.n9KLqBC19127@f7.net> Message-ID: <4ADEC2BD.8060105@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Karl Berry wrote: > You can do reencoding with vp/vf. But you do not need to. You can do > it purely by creating tfm's and pdftex.map entries (psfonts.map for > dvips). This is preferable since it is one less file to get wrong, or > for people using obscure drivers to have trouble with. Thanks, Karl : I take your point, but surely using VP/VF is more likely to work regardless of the driver than using PdfTeX.map ? After all, the latter will work only with PdfTeX (if I understand correctly), whereas VFs/VPs have been around since 1990 (almost twenty years) ... ** Phil. From axel.retif at mac.com Wed Oct 21 10:35:39 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:35:39 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Information about coding In-Reply-To: <4ADE9CED.8000803@imf.au.dk> References: <20091020194015.28524m7bmb5onbi8@mbox.unict.it> <4ADE9CED.8000803@imf.au.dk> Message-ID: On 21 Oct, 2009, at 00:32, Lars Madsen wrote: > Damiano Rossello wrote: >> Dear Sirs, >> I'm a LaTeX user, but not a programmer. Anyway, I've purchased the >> mtpro package >> and find myself disturbed by the layout of curly braces \{ and \}, >> since I prefer the design in cmr. How can I can change the >> appeareance of these math delimiter (by using those in cmr) while >> employing the mtpro package? >> I thank you in advance for the response, > > (1) what is mtpro? MathTime Pro: http://www.pctex.com/mtpro2.html Best, Axel From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Wed Oct 21 13:17:36 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:17:36 -0200 Subject: [texhax] Information about coding In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ADED1B0.332.7C904E@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Hello. I would guess(!) something like this might work \renewcommand{\{}% {\mathchoice{\fontfamily{cmex}\selectfont\{ }% {\fontfamily{cmex}\selectfont\{ }% {\fontfamily{cmex}\selectfont\{ }% {\fontfamily{cmex}\selectfont\{ }} I did not try it. Better might be to use vf-files (which is not exactly easy to do). hh From: texhax-request at tug.org Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 412 To: texhax at tug.org Send reply to: texhax at tug.org Date sent: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:00:01 +0200 > Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2009 19:40:15 +0200 > From: Damiano Rossello > To: support at tug.org > Subject: [texhax] Information about coding > I'm a LaTeX user, but not a programmer. Anyway, I've purchased the > mtpro package > and find myself disturbed by the layout of curly braces \{ and \}, > since I prefer the design in cmr. How can I can change the appeareance > of these math delimiter (by using those in cmr) while employing the > mtpro package? From mathias.bauer at gmx.net Wed Oct 21 12:16:06 2009 From: mathias.bauer at gmx.net (Mathias Bauer) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:16:06 +0200 Subject: [texhax] vanishing tab characters and docstrip In-Reply-To: <20091019154257.GA15829@gmx.net> References: <20091019154257.GA15829@gmx.net> Message-ID: <20091021101606.GA14074@gmx.net> Hello list! * Mathias Bauer schrieb am Mo, 19.10.2009 um 17:42 (+0200): > With docstrip and the package doc, I want to generate commented > Makefile code (and code using other programming languages, too) > instead of LaTeX code. Running either tex or latex on the .ins > installation file > latex test.ins > kills all tab characters at the beginning of a line. Because > of the Makefile syntax requiring tab characters at the > beginning of some lines, docstrip's behaviour is unsolicited > and in some sense "erroneous". > [...] > How can I avoid docstrip killing tab characters at the input > line's beginning? Can anybody give me a hint? For the archives: Following an advice of Martin Schr?der the best solution seems to be using a space character at the respective source code line's beginning, which will be translated with sed -e 's/^ /\t' *after* running LaTeX/TeX on the .ins installation file. Moreover with that tab character handling there's no need to configure the Emacs mode docTeX/FM, which doesn't normally allow the user to save any tabs at all. They were translated to 8 space characters on the fly. Mathias From najmi.zabidi at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 18:34:24 2009 From: najmi.zabidi at gmail.com (Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:34:24 +0800 Subject: [texhax] convert beamer's PDF to HTML thumbnails Message-ID: Hello, I want to convert my PDF slides from Beamer to HTML ... say thumbnails. I did tried pdftohtml but it doesn't work well. Any clue? Googled but seems lost. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vivrii at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 18:48:06 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:48:06 -0400 Subject: [texhax] convert beamer's PDF to HTML thumbnails In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi wrote: > Hello, > > I want to convert my PDF slides from Beamer to HTML ... say thumbnails. > > I did tried pdftohtml but it doesn't work well. > > Any clue? Googled but seems lost. Converting pdf files to html is not task of TeX. What can be done? Use htlatex to generate html rather than pdf However beamer is not supported, rewrite as powerdot (which is rather easy). Adding Slidy http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy/#(1) allows presentation like this http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/Experimental/Talk_5A.html (made ONLY to check how it works) HTH Victor > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org > -- ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From najmi.zabidi at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 18:54:32 2009 From: najmi.zabidi at gmail.com (Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 00:54:32 +0800 Subject: [texhax] convert beamer's PDF to HTML thumbnails In-Reply-To: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> References: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Hello, I got a solution after tweaking the solution here: http://www.madcomputerscientist.net/blog/home/2007/08/converting-beamerpdf-presentations-to.html He was suggesting GS - yes. Except the latter tools which I don't have it on ubuntu Tools : gs - well, we have it most of the time igal - creating HTML thumbnails/gallery ImageMagick - I use convert to change the resolution ... I can't set from gs output 640x480 at first.. rather to tweak it later. Here goes: gs -dNOPAUSE -g1024x768 -r205 -sDEVICE=pngalpha -sOutputFile=./temp/slide_%d.png -dBATCH beamer-foss-my-09.pdf for i in *.png; do convert -resize 640x480 $i new/$i ; done cd new/ ls igal2 -r * Done! - I am so happy... On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 12:48 AM, Victor Ivrii wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:34 PM, Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi > wrote: > > Hello, > > > > I want to convert my PDF slides from Beamer to HTML ... say thumbnails. > > > > I did tried pdftohtml but it doesn't work well. > > > > Any clue? Googled but seems lost. > > Converting pdf files to html is not task of TeX. > What can be done? Use htlatex to generate html rather than pdf > However beamer is not supported, rewrite as powerdot (which is rather > easy). > Adding Slidy http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy/#(1)allows > presentation like this > > http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/Experimental/Talk_5A.html > > (made ONLY to check how it works) > > HTH Victor > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > > > Automated subscription management: > http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org > > > > > > -- > ======================== > Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto > http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From vivrii at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 19:16:21 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:16:21 -0400 Subject: [texhax] convert beamer's PDF to HTML thumbnails In-Reply-To: References: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19af81400910211016r18a5fb97ufaf2c26d801be375@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi wrote: > Hello, I got a solution after tweaking the solution here: > http://www.madcomputerscientist.net/blog/home/2007/08/converting-beamerpdf-presentations-to.html > Why one need to do this is a mystery (and it has nothing to do with TeX). But wiki with PDF handler plugin does this in very subtle way. Example http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/jwiki/index.php?title=Image:MAT1063-1.pdf&page=1 -- Victor ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From DAfshartous at med.miami.edu Wed Oct 21 19:39:54 2009 From: DAfshartous at med.miami.edu (Afshartous, David) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 13:39:54 -0400 Subject: [texhax] Lower subscripts Message-ID: All, For the expression $\rho_{X_1 X_2}$, ?the subscript does not really look very low compared to the base. Is there any way to make it lower? Thanks! David From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 21 19:51:00 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 18:51:00 +0100 Subject: [texhax] convert beamer's PDF to HTML thumbnails In-Reply-To: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> References: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4ADF4A04.7000602@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Victor Ivrii wrote: > Converting pdf files to html is not task of TeX. > What can be done? Use htlatex to generate html rather than pdf > However beamer is not supported, rewrite as powerdot (which is rather easy). > Adding Slidy http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy/#(1) allows > presentation like this > > http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/Experimental/Talk_5A.html > > (made ONLY to check how it works) Hmmm : 1 \over \root {g} comes out very poorly at http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/Experimental/Talk_5A.html#(9) the "\over" is almost impossible to see, and until I did a "view image" on the "\root {g}", I thought it was a part of the root sign ... ** Phil. From cbrewster at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 20:04:41 2009 From: cbrewster at gmail.com (Christopher Brewster) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:04:41 +0100 Subject: [texhax] placing texts in boxes (flowing from one page to another) Message-ID: If I want to place text in a succession of boxes, the best solution I have found is the framed package. However, if I have more than one \begin{framed} ... \end{framed} next to one another they suddenly space out some times when I want them to stay close together. Is there a solution using this package? or should I be using another package? The key point is some of the text stretches over from one page to the next, and I want this to be properly in a box. Hence I cannot use a table/tabular or even longtable because each cell seems to have to be on one page. Thanks for any suggestions, Christopher ***************************************************** Operations and Information Management Group, Aston Business School, Aston University, Birmingham, B4 7ET, UNITED KINGDOM From vivrii at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 20:16:24 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:16:24 -0400 Subject: [texhax] convert beamer's PDF to HTML thumbnails In-Reply-To: <4ADF4A04.7000602@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> <4ADF4A04.7000602@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <19af81400910211116t2adbb57ct3e4a3777734c8e07@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 1:51 PM, Philip TAYLOR wrote: > > > Victor Ivrii wrote: > >> Converting pdf files to html is not task of TeX. >> What can be done? Use htlatex to generate html rather than pdf >> However beamer is not supported, rewrite as powerdot (which is rather >> easy). >> Adding Slidy http://www.w3.org/Talks/Tools/Slidy/#(1) allows >> presentation like this >> >> http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/Experimental/Talk_5A.html >> >> (made ONLY to check how it works) > > Hmmm : 1 \over \root {g} comes out very poorly at > > ? ? ? ?http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/Experimental/Talk_5A.html#(9) > > the "\over" is almost impossible to see, and > until I did a "view image" on the "\root {g}", > I thought it was a part of the root sign ... > > ** Phil. > I agree tex4ht is not perfect; more precisely, html has a lot of shortcomings for math. There are different variants (using jsMath or Mathml) but I misplaced these experiments. The only thing I did was to follow advices of Eitan and add Slidy from w3 Victor -- ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 21 20:38:46 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 19:38:46 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Lower subscripts In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4ADF5536.1070207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> I'm forced to agree, and even adding the apparently missing braces doesn't help; the best I can manage is : $\rho_{_{{X_1 X_2}}}$ Philip Taylor -------- Afshartous, David wrote: > All, > For the expression $\rho_{X_1 X_2}$, the subscript does not really > look very low compared to the base. Is there any way to make it lower? > Thanks! > David > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From bnb at ams.org Wed Oct 21 20:58:44 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 14:58:44 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] Lower subscripts In-Reply-To: <4ADF5536.1070207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <4ADF5536.1070207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: I'm forced to agree, and even adding the apparently missing braces doesn't help; the best I can manage is : $\rho_{_{{X_1 X_2}}}$ oh, phil, surely you haven't forgotten that if there's a superscript, the subscripts are pushed down! how about this: $\rho^{}_{X_1 X_2}$ -- bb From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 21 22:13:17 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:13:17 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Lower subscripts In-Reply-To: References: <4ADF5536.1070207@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4ADF6B5D.2000000@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Barbara Beeton wrote: > oh, phil, surely you haven't forgotten > that if there's a superscript, the > subscripts are pushed down! > > how about this: > > $\rho^{}_{X_1 X_2}$ Of course I'd forgotten :-) But worse, I failed to put on my +2.0 glasses and see that David had actually used braces around the subscript; to me, they looked like round brackets, and I could not understand why it was subscripting everything and not just the first term ! Normally +1.25 are fine for screen work, but they don't really shew the difference between braces and round brackets ... ** Phil. From philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it Wed Oct 21 23:35:16 2009 From: philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it (Philip G. Ratcliffe) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:35:16 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Lower subscripts In-Reply-To: Message-ID: <88BA4C8CCCF34B89B58D0E3FAE332701@PGR1> Cordialmente, Philip G. Ratcliffe > -----Original Message----- > From: texhax-bounces at tug.org [mailto:texhax-bounces at tug.org] > On Behalf Of Afshartous, David > Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 7:40 PM > To: texhax at tug.org > Subject: [texhax] Lower subscripts > > > All, > For the expression $\rho_{X_1 X_2}$, ?the subscript does not > really look very low compared to the base. Is there any way > to make it lower? Thanks! > David Here's Martin Heller's reply to a post of 17/10/2009: > If it is only this one formula then X'_nX^{}_n should do. If you want to > unify the height of sub- and superscripts in all formulas you can use > package subdepth . Cheers, Phil From frisk.h at gmail.com Wed Oct 21 23:35:29 2009 From: frisk.h at gmail.com (Henrik Frisk) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 23:35:29 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Texlive and fonts In-Reply-To: <60E8434E-26C2-41C7-B24B-EA287AF26EB5@mac.com> References: <311224200908240022q1e21af53u5c79258d3954040b@mail.gmail.com> <311224200908270041j44fda29bh387565275d43133c@mail.gmail.com> <852EB9FA-9776-450C-9E59-9B9FE1848346@mac.com> <311224200908300049y690403a4s651e74a1657be5e@mail.gmail.com> <60E8434E-26C2-41C7-B24B-EA287AF26EB5@mac.com> Message-ID: <311224200910211435p52d2c1famd18c62aea5ac749e@mail.gmail.com> On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Axel E. Retif wrote: > On 30 Aug, 2009, at 02:49, Henrik Frisk wrote: > > [...] >> >> http://tug.org/fonts/fontinstall.html >> >> OK, I followed thes instructions but I still can't seem to get it to work. >> As far as I can tell, everything looks good, files are in the right >> locations and the filename database is updated as it should. But running >> >> $ pdftex testfont >> >> causes the following error >> >> pdfTeX warning: pdftex (file padb8r): Font padb8r at 600 not found >> >> whereas >> >> $ tex testfont >> >> works fine. >> > > As you are using TeXLive 2007, I think updmap should update (or create) > psfonts_t1.map in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/ and pdftex_dl14.map > in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/, with information of your added > fonts. Does it? > > After leaving this issue alone, somehow thinking it would go away byitself, I tried again tonite to get these two fonts (Frutiger and AGaramond) to play with my TeXLive install (Fedora10). The files referenced by Axel above are not created. Though updmap runs without complaints, I can't see that a corresponding entry is created in any of the different pdfonts files. Any suggestions as to what I may do to get these fonts to work with my TeXLive2007. (I've used them successfully prior to Te2007). Is is an option to re-install TeX?? best, /Henrik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From mr_heller at yahoo.dk Thu Oct 22 01:19:33 2009 From: mr_heller at yahoo.dk (Martin Heller) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 01:19:33 +0200 Subject: [texhax] convert beamer's PDF to HTML thumbnails In-Reply-To: <19af81400910211016r18a5fb97ufaf2c26d801be375@mail.gmail.com> References: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> <19af81400910211016r18a5fb97ufaf2c26d801be375@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: Victor Ivrii wrote: > On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 12:54 PM, Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi > wrote: >> Hello, I got a solution after tweaking the solution here: >> http://www.madcomputerscientist.net/blog/home/2007/08/converting-beamerpdf-presentations-to.html >> > > > Why one need to do this is a mystery (and it has nothing to do with > TeX). But wiki with PDF handler plugin does this in very subtle way. > Example > > http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/jwiki/index.php?title=Image:MAT1063-1.pdf&page=1 > Also a bit OT but pdftoswf can be used to generate an Adobe Flash swf-file from a pdf-presentation. Example: From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Thu Oct 22 02:32:26 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 22:32:26 -0200 Subject: [texhax] placing text in boxes Message-ID: <4ADF8BFA.24472.2876E8D@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> There is a french package "boites" which could be redefined to the wanted effect(s). Not perfect but for your purpose probably quite useful. But if you don't read french, keep away. \usepackage{framed} is some kind of solution, as you noticed. How to keep the boxes from spreading - try \clearpage at the end of the page. But of course, if you have a lot of boxes and a long book, you have a lot of try and error. The clever use of \enlargethispage{n\baselineskip} (n might even be negative) might give useful results. hh > > If I want to place text in a succession of boxes, the best solution I > have found is the framed package. > However, if I have more than one \begin{framed} ... \end{framed} next > to one another they suddenly space out some times when I want them to > stay close together. > > Is there a solution using this package? > or should I be using another package? > > The key point is some of the text stretches over from one page to the > next, and I want this to be properly in a box. Hence I cannot use a > table/tabular or even longtable because each cell seems to have to be > on one page. > From axel.retif at mac.com Thu Oct 22 04:24:09 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Wed, 21 Oct 2009 21:24:09 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Texlive and fonts In-Reply-To: <311224200910211435p52d2c1famd18c62aea5ac749e@mail.gmail.com> References: <311224200908240022q1e21af53u5c79258d3954040b@mail.gmail.com> <311224200908270041j44fda29bh387565275d43133c@mail.gmail.com> <852EB9FA-9776-450C-9E59-9B9FE1848346@mac.com> <311224200908300049y690403a4s651e74a1657be5e@mail.gmail.com> <60E8434E-26C2-41C7-B24B-EA287AF26EB5@mac.com> <311224200910211435p52d2c1famd18c62aea5ac749e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 21 Oct, 2009, at 16:35, Henrik Frisk wrote: > On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Axel E. Retif > wrote: > On 30 Aug, 2009, at 02:49, Henrik Frisk wrote: > >>> [...] >>> >>> http://tug.org/fonts/fontinstall.html >>> >>> OK, I followed thes instructions but I still can't seem to get it >>> to work. As far as I can tell, everything looks good, files are in >>> the right locations and the filename database is updated as it >>> should. But running >>> >>> $ pdftex testfont >>> >>> causes the following error >>> >>> pdfTeX warning: pdftex (file padb8r): Font padb8r at 600 not found >>> >>> whereas >>> >>> $ tex testfont >>> >>> works fine. > >> As you are using TeXLive 2007, I think updmap should update (or >> create) psfonts_t1.map in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/ >> and pdftex_dl14.map in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/, >> with information of your added fonts. Does it? > > After leaving this issue alone, somehow thinking it would go away > byitself, I tried again tonite to get these two fonts (Frutiger and > AGaramond) to play with my TeXLive install (Fedora10). The files > referenced by Axel above are not created. Though updmap runs without > complaints, I can't see that a corresponding entry is created in any > of the different pdfonts files. > > Any suggestions as to what I may do to get these fonts to work with > my TeXLive2007. (I've used them successfully prior to Te2007). Is is > an option to re-install TeX?? About the last question, I think uninstalling TL2007 and then reinstalling it would be the way. But you might get into trouble with dependencies ---you might be asked to uninstall first programs that depend on TL. Now ---by any chance would you have an invisible directory called something like .texlive2007 in your $HOME? If so, could you check if inside it there are some psfonts and pdftex map files? Best, Axel From frisk.h at gmail.com Thu Oct 22 09:56:24 2009 From: frisk.h at gmail.com (Henrik Frisk) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 09:56:24 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Texlive and fonts In-Reply-To: References: <311224200908240022q1e21af53u5c79258d3954040b@mail.gmail.com> <311224200908270041j44fda29bh387565275d43133c@mail.gmail.com> <852EB9FA-9776-450C-9E59-9B9FE1848346@mac.com> <311224200908300049y690403a4s651e74a1657be5e@mail.gmail.com> <60E8434E-26C2-41C7-B24B-EA287AF26EB5@mac.com> <311224200910211435p52d2c1famd18c62aea5ac749e@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <311224200910220056m511e8ac8l12ced367bbce4ee7@mail.gmail.com> On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Axel E. Retif wrote: > On 21 Oct, 2009, at 16:35, Henrik Frisk wrote: > > On Sun, Aug 30, 2009 at 1:48 PM, Axel E. Retif >> wrote: >> On 30 Aug, 2009, at 02:49, Henrik Frisk wrote: >> >> [...] >>>> >>>> http://tug.org/fonts/fontinstall.html >>>> >>>> OK, I followed thes instructions but I still can't seem to get it to >>>> work. As far as I can tell, everything looks good, files are in the right >>>> locations and the filename database is updated as it should. But running >>>> >>>> $ pdftex testfont >>>> >>>> causes the following error >>>> >>>> pdfTeX warning: pdftex (file padb8r): Font padb8r at 600 not found >>>> >>>> whereas >>>> >>>> $ tex testfont >>>> >>>> works fine. >>>> >>> >> As you are using TeXLive 2007, I think updmap should update (or create) >>> psfonts_t1.map in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/ and pdftex_dl14.map >>> in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/, with information of your added >>> fonts. Does it? >>> >> >> After leaving this issue alone, somehow thinking it would go away >> byitself, I tried again tonite to get these two fonts (Frutiger and >> AGaramond) to play with my TeXLive install (Fedora10). The files referenced >> by Axel above are not created. Though updmap runs without complaints, I >> can't see that a corresponding entry is created in any of the different >> pdfonts files. >> >> Any suggestions as to what I may do to get these fonts to work with my >> TeXLive2007. (I've used them successfully prior to Te2007). Is is an option >> to re-install TeX?? >> > pd > About the last question, I think uninstalling TL2007 and then reinstalling > it would be the way. But you might get into trouble with dependencies ---you > might be asked to uninstall first programs that depend on TL. > > Now ---by any chance would you have an invisible directory called something > like .texlive2007 in your $HOME? If so, could you check if inside it there > are some psfonts and pdftex map files? > > Finally! I started poking around inside the .texlive2007 directory and came across a permissions issue. running $ chown -R $HOME/.texlive2007/* username and then a subsequent $ updmap Made the fonts available to me. Thanks for all the help! best /Henrik -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From axel.retif at mac.com Thu Oct 22 10:36:42 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 03:36:42 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Texlive and fonts In-Reply-To: <311224200910220056m511e8ac8l12ced367bbce4ee7@mail.gmail.com> References: <311224200908240022q1e21af53u5c79258d3954040b@mail.gmail.com> <311224200908270041j44fda29bh387565275d43133c@mail.gmail.com> <852EB9FA-9776-450C-9E59-9B9FE1848346@mac.com> <311224200908300049y690403a4s651e74a1657be5e@mail.gmail.com> <60E8434E-26C2-41C7-B24B-EA287AF26EB5@mac.com> <311224200910211435p52d2c1famd18c62aea5ac749e@mail.gmail.com> <311224200910220056m511e8ac8l12ced367bbce4ee7@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On 22 Oct, 2009, at 02:56, Henrik Frisk wrote: > On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:24 AM, Axel E. Retif > wrote: [...] > >> As you are using TeXLive 2007, I think updmap should update (or >> create) psfonts_t1.map in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/dvips/updmap/ >> and pdftex_dl14.map in /var/lib/texmf/fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/, >> with information of your added fonts. Does it? > > [...] > >> Now ---by any chance would you have an invisible directory called >> something like .texlive2007 in your $HOME? If so, could you check >> if inside it there are some psfonts and pdftex map files? > > Finally! I started poking around inside the .texlive2007 directory > and came across a permissions issue. running > > $ chown -R $HOME/.texlive2007/* username > > and then a subsequent > > $ updmap > > Made the fonts available to me. Glad to know. Now --- updmap can be tricky because you can invoke it as updmap, which updates the user's map files (within .texlive2007 in your case); or as updmap-sys, which updates system-wide map files (within /var/lib/texmf/ fonts/map/pdftex/updmap/ in your case, I think, **if** you have write permissions to that directory); or as sudo updmap-sys, which also updates system-wide map files in the latter directory, but owned by root. I think maybe sometime you invoked it as ``sudo updmap'', which then updated the map files inside .texlive2007, but **owned by root**; then a further simple updmap couldn't update those map files because of the permissions issue you mention. Personally, I don't like map files within .texliveXXXX, so I put my personal fonts in texmf-local (TeXLive 2008), and **always** use ``sudo updmap-sys --enable Map=.map''. But as your setting is already working, I think you should leave it like that. Best, Axel From Susan.Dittmar at gmx.de Thu Oct 22 10:57:53 2009 From: Susan.Dittmar at gmx.de (Susan Dittmar) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 10:57:53 +0200 Subject: [texhax] placing text in boxes In-Reply-To: <4ADF8BFA.24472.2876E8D@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> References: <4ADF8BFA.24472.2876E8D@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: <20091022085753.GA27280@eureca.de> Quoting hh (hh-brasil at bol.com.br): > There is a french package "boites" which could be redefined to the > wanted effect(s). Not perfect but for your purpose probably quite > useful. > But if you don't read french, keep away. The language need not stop you. I posted a translation of the french comments some time ago, and I think Martin Kohm put them on CTAN. If you can't find it, feel free to send me a personal eMail, and I can send it to you. Susan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From prstanley at ntlworld.com Thu Oct 22 15:19:01 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Thu, 22 Oct 2009 14:19:01 +0100 Subject: [texhax] macros for a semantic tableaux (tree) Message-ID: <20091022131851.VDAJ22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks I'm looking for a set of macros for a binary tree resulting from application of the semantic tableaux. Any help would be most appreciated. Thanks, Paul From asnd at triumf.ca Thu Oct 22 19:19:24 2009 From: asnd at triumf.ca (Donald Arseneau) Date: 22 Oct 2009 10:19:24 -0700 Subject: [texhax] placing texts in boxes (flowing from one page to another) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: Christopher Brewster writes: > If I want to place text in a succession of boxes, the best solution I have > found is the framed package. > However, if I have more than one \begin{framed} ... \end{framed} next to one > another they suddenly space out some times when I want them to stay close > together. I don't know what you mean by "suddenly" or "some times". If there is an inconsistency you need to give a concrete demonstration for debugging. The space between consecutive framed environments is \topsep plus a baseline skip (note I didn't say \baselineskip, the parameter; the distance is \baselineskip - \FrameHeightAdjust). To make two frames abut (touch) you can (locally) set length \topsep as 0pt, and put a \nointerlineskip command in between the environemnts. There is another way to defeat the usual "\addvspace{\topsep}" and that is to fake a preceding skip, using a commandm like this: \newcommand\notopsep{\vskip-\topsep \vskip\topsep} Then you can put \notopsep \nointerlineskip between framed environments to make them touch. (You can likewise use \notopsep between lists or quotations or whatever.) While \topsep is the spearation LaTeX always inserts for set-off paragraph environments like lists and center (-ed text) and quotations, should it really be used by framed? I think framed separation looks good with just the baselineskip. Perhaps it should be a new length parameter that *defaults* to \topsep. Opinions please? Donald Arseneau asnd at triumf.ca From asnd at triumf.ca Thu Oct 22 20:37:09 2009 From: asnd at triumf.ca (Donald Arseneau) Date: 22 Oct 2009 11:37:09 -0700 Subject: [texhax] placing texts in boxes (flowing from one page to another) In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I wrote: \notopsep, but this doesn't eliminate the spacing, because the space below the preceding frame is still there. One could use: \newcommand\notopsep{\par \vskip-\lastskip \vskip-\topsep \vskip\topsep} -- Donald Arseneau asnd at triumf.ca From olegkat at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 06:42:52 2009 From: olegkat at gmail.com (Oleg Katsitadze) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 07:42:52 +0300 Subject: [texhax] A-HA! style file for spivey's book In-Reply-To: <20091017020308.SIWJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091017020308.SIWJ13254.aamtaout01-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20091023044252.GA31853@thor> Hi Paul, On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 01:29:56AM +0100, P. R. Stanley wrote: > The lblot macro is defined in the style file but the code seems > indecipherable. Any pointers would be v v mucho appreciated-o In case you haven't figured this out yet, \lblot is defined to be a math symbol (\@mc is made equivalent to \mathchardef on the previous line "\let\@mc=\mathchardef"). The family of that character (the second hex digit) depends on the current value of \oxfam (see definition of \@fz, which basically produces a hex digit corresponding to the value of \oxfam). See The TeXbook for explanation of \mathchardef and math symbol definitions. HTH, Oleg From madduck at madduck.net Fri Oct 23 12:16:18 2009 From: madduck at madduck.net (martin f. krafft) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:16:18 +0200 Subject: [texhax] best way to revise a large existing text In-Reply-To: <200909221500.n8MF0pPC018794@bilbo.localnet> References: <20090922134130.GA13574@lapse.rw.madduck.net> <200909221500.n8MF0pPC018794@bilbo.localnet> Message-ID: <20091023101618.GA4238@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net> also sprach Boris Veytsman [2009.09.22.1700 +0200]: > Try latexdiff, http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/latexdiff/ That was a marvelous suggestion. Thanks. -- martin | http://madduck.net/ | http://two.sentenc.es/ "i like young girls. their stories are shorter." -- tom mcguane spamtraps: madduck.bogus at madduck.net -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: Digital signature (see http://martin-krafft.net/gpg/) URL: From news3 at nililand.de Fri Oct 23 12:18:20 2009 From: news3 at nililand.de (Ulrike Fischer) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:18:20 +0200 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs References: <200910202152.n9KLqBC19127@f7.net> <4ADEC2BD.8060105@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: Am Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:13:49 +0100 schrieb Philip TAYLOR: >> You can do reencoding with vp/vf. But you do not need to. You can do >> it purely by creating tfm's and pdftex.map entries (psfonts.map for >> dvips). This is preferable since it is one less file to get wrong, or >> for people using obscure drivers to have trouble with. > Thanks, Karl : I take your point, but surely using VP/VF is more > likely to work regardless of the driver than using PdfTeX.map ? No, it is the other way round: e.g. the xdv2pdf-driver of xetex (now no longer the default driver) doesn't support virtual fonts. On the other side every actual driver that can handle type1 fonts has something similar to pdftex.map/psfonts.map and can do the reencoding. And updmap nowadays generates all the relevant maps so you only have to setup one map-file. If the real font (the pfb) contains all the symbols needed for the TeX-encoding for which you want to set up the fonts, then you can do the reencoding in the map file if you want. Virtual fonts are needed when you want to do more, e.g. pull symbols from more then one font or manipulate individual symbols. -- Ulrike Fischer From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Fri Oct 23 12:41:50 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 11:41:50 +0100 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: References: <200910202152.n9KLqBC19127@f7.net> <4ADEC2BD.8060105@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4AE1886E.7010904@Rhul.Ac.Uk> OK, thanks for the update Ulrike : I confess I am /staggered/ that there exist drivers that don't support virtual fonts 20 years after DEK introduced them, but that's life ! ** Phil. -------- Ulrike Fischer wrote: > No, it is the other way round: e.g. the xdv2pdf-driver of xetex (now > no longer the default driver) doesn't support virtual fonts. On the > other side every actual driver that can handle type1 fonts has > something similar to pdftex.map/psfonts.map and can do the > reencoding. And updmap nowadays generates all the relevant maps so > you only have to setup one map-file. > > If the real font (the pfb) contains all the symbols needed for the > TeX-encoding for which you want to set up the fonts, then you can do > the reencoding in the map file if you want. Virtual fonts are needed > when you want to do more, e.g. pull symbols from more then one font > or manipulate individual symbols. > > From vivrii at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 16:34:01 2009 From: vivrii at gmail.com (Victor Ivrii) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 10:34:01 -0400 Subject: [texhax] convert beamer's PDF to HTML thumbnails In-Reply-To: References: <19af81400910210948v1e3a9bccrbf431bc73afce31a@mail.gmail.com> <4ADF4A04.7000602@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19af81400910211116t2adbb57ct3e4a3777734c8e07@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <19af81400910230734l37d99e2u69b457b5ce275ad9@mail.gmail.com> On Wed, Oct 21, 2009 at 2:42 PM, Herbert Schulz wrote: > > That equation looks like a combination of text with only the \sqrt{g} being > actually in math mode. What happens if you use \frac{1}{\sqrt{g}} and put > the whole thing in math environment. I think there is an htlatex option that > forces all equations to be made into graphics which would stop that partial > equation being in text. I could not find any relevant notes. Except Eitan wrote that by default inlinemath is html (if possible) and displaymath is png I did few other experiments few years ago http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/Experimental2 (htlatex + Slidy + jsMath) http://weyl.math.toronto.edu/Experimental2 (tex4ht+Slidy+MathML; so one needs a MathML capable browser) I do not think that html & Co is at this moment adequate for long mathematical texts. Short abstract may be another matter Victor -- ======================== Victor Ivrii, Professor, Department of Mathematics, University of Toronto http://www.math.toronto.edu/ivrii From najmi.zabidi at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 17:13:31 2009 From: najmi.zabidi at gmail.com (Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:13:31 +0800 Subject: [texhax] Removing () in author short name in beamer Message-ID: Hello If I use themes other than default Warsaw,say,Berlin,I will get the authorname with () at the left bottom.How to remove this unneccesary brackets? -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From olegkat at gmail.com Fri Oct 23 18:33:43 2009 From: olegkat at gmail.com (Oleg Katsitadze) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 19:33:43 +0300 Subject: [texhax] Split Screen For Emacs Console with preview latex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <20091023163343.GA5846@thor> On Tue, Oct 06, 2009 at 08:52:19AM -0430, Jes?s Guillermo Andrade wrote: > Hello Muhammad: You will NOT find anything of sorts (dvi previewer on > terminal). You can try dvisvga: Description: dvi viewer for SVGAlib dvisvga is a screen-previewer for .dvi-files compiled by TeX. It lets you see what your printed output will look like. You can choose between a black-and-white representation and greyscaling. You can choose an arbitrary zoom factor (at some cost of performance). You can set marks to measure distances. You can search for text strings. You may visit lots of DVI files, set bookmarks and get them saved to a startup-file. dvisvga does not support pxl-files. dvisvga ignores all 'special'-commands and has no font-replacing mechanism. However, that will be full-screen, the "split-screen" approach won't work. HTH, Oleg From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Sat Oct 24 01:23:04 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 01:23:04 +0200 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <4ADE2F43.7060700@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <200910201840.n9KIehN19747@f7.net> <4ADE0AF2.1020900@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19166.8538.615332.928347@zaphod.ms25.net> <4ADE2F43.7060700@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <19170.15064.594179.210443@zaphod.ms25.net> On 20 October 2009 Philip TAYLOR wrote: > Many thanks for the information, Reinhard : very helpful. > But one thing confuses me : when you write > > > I don't know what you intend, b ut if you change the font encoding, you > > almost always have to create a new tfm file. At least unless you are > > talking about monospaced fonts. > > I thought (but it is a long time since I played with > such things) that all I would need to do was to create > a VP file (virtual property list) specifying one > or more base fonts and the necessary mappings, and > then convert this to a VF. Have I misunderstood > (or mis-remembered) this ? Hi Phil, please excuse the late response, I had, and still have, some problems with my computer. It's good that you are familiar with plain TeX and TeX primitives. LaTeX and Context provide convenient user interfaces but these are only wrappers. Let's ignore them ATM. The only way to specify a font in plain TeX is to specify the name of the .tfm file: \font\rm=cmr10 (means: load cmr10.tfm) This means that each real or virtual font needs its own .tfm file. It's not sufficient to create a new virtual font. You have to create a new .tfm file too, otherwise the virtual font won't be accessible. Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From pjd1 at columbia.edu Fri Oct 23 18:41:59 2009 From: pjd1 at columbia.edu (Phoebus J. Dhrymes) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 12:41:59 -0400 Subject: [texhax] Difficulty with using PCTeX to compile a .txt file in Unicode Message-ID: <2DDF1BE603234776960CA0D5A6EBFF0C@PDQUAD> Dear Sir/Madam: Recently, I have developed a way to make typing a TeX style document relatively easy. I did that by using the facility Autocorrect in Microsoft WORD. This allows me to write the command for say an integral with both upper and lower limit by simply typing (in WORD) int; or alpha by typing a2, or beta by typing b2, or prime by typing pr etc. When you do that in WORD the augmented Autocorrect facility will type in the document \int or \alpha, or \beta or \prime etc. When the typing of TeX style file is completed I use the Save As command in WORD. But the options I am offered do not allow me to use this file in PCTeX to produce a dvi or pdf file. The only version I see in the Save As dialog box, that preserves the appearance of the file, and which I have used, is Unicode, which lists the file as xxx.txt. However, when I try to use this file on PCTeX I see on screen a file all of whose entries are nulled and the program cannot use it to produce dvi or pdf.. Is there a solution to this problem? It seems there must be. Thank you P.J. Dhrymes. P.S. I attach a small file produced as I have explained, typed on WORD and saved as Unicode. Phoebus J. Dhrymes Edwin W. Rickert Professor of Economics Columbia University tel. +212-854-4459 fax. +212-854-8059 email: pjd1 at columbia.edu -------------- next part -------------- An embedded and charset-unspecified text was scrubbed... Name: rationalemeanvariance.txt URL: From axel.retif at mac.com Sat Oct 24 06:59:34 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Fri, 23 Oct 2009 23:59:34 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Difficulty with using PCTeX to compile a .txt file in Unicode In-Reply-To: <2DDF1BE603234776960CA0D5A6EBFF0C@PDQUAD> References: <2DDF1BE603234776960CA0D5A6EBFF0C@PDQUAD> Message-ID: <5926B7A3-2836-4C25-8E91-B0722D21BD93@mac.com> On 23 Oct, 2009, at 11:41, Phoebus J. Dhrymes wrote: > Dear Sir/Madam: > > Recently, I have developed a way to make typing a TeX style document > relatively easy. I did that by using the facility Autocorrect in > Microsoft WORD. > > [...] > The only version I see in the Save As dialog box, that preserves the > appearance of the file, and which I have used, is Unicode, which > lists the file as xxx.txt. > > However, when I try to use this file on PCTeX I see on screen a > file all of whose entries are nulled and the program cannot use it > to produce dvi or pdf I don't use PCTeX (nor Windows or Word), but on a Mac BBEdit identifies your file as UTF-16 Little-Endian, with Windows line endings (CRLF). Is there a way that Word could save it as UTF-8 instead? Maybe that could work. Or why don't you try TeXmaker?: http://www.xm1math.net/texmaker/ I think you can use its many buttons as you're using your autocorrect shortcuts. Best, Axel From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Sat Oct 24 09:39:22 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 08:39:22 +0100 Subject: [texhax] ?encoding? suffices in the TeX Live Adobe font TFMs In-Reply-To: <19170.15064.594179.210443@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <200910201840.n9KIehN19747@f7.net> <4ADE0AF2.1020900@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19166.8538.615332.928347@zaphod.ms25.net> <4ADE2F43.7060700@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <19170.15064.594179.210443@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <4AE2AF2A.4040003@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Dear Reinhard -- > please excuse the late response, I had, and still have, some problems > with my computer. No problem :-) > > It's good that you are familiar with plain TeX and TeX primitives. > LaTeX and Context provide convenient user interfaces but these are > only wrappers. Let's ignore them ATM. > > The only way to specify a font in plain TeX is to specify the name of > the .tfm file: > > \font\rm=cmr10 > > (means: load cmr10.tfm) > > This means that each real or virtual font needs its own .tfm file. > It's not sufficient to create a new virtual font. You have to create > a new .tfm file too, otherwise the virtual font won't be accessible. Yes, that part I understand : but if you remember, the query started with the naming conventions for the Adobe base 35 font TFMs -- for any given font (say, Adobe Times Roman), there are a large number (six or seven) TFMs, each with a subtle variant in the name. So I was assuming (perhaps wrongly) that there already exist TFMs for the Adobe base 35 fonts collated in the TeX collating sequence (modulo the missing characters, for which nothing can be done), and that in order to use these successfully (once I had identified which TFM corresponded most closely to (say) ArborText's "PSMTIMR" (PostScript Mapped Times Roman), all I would then need to do was to create a VP (and thence VF) to let PdfTeX make use of this. But I may well be wrong : I often am :-) ** Phil. From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Sat Oct 24 12:38:34 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 08:38:34 -0200 Subject: [texhax] Difficulty with using PCTeX to compile a .txt file In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AE2BD0A.23782.4B2B78@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> I must admit that I became curious if my preferred editor (= Scite) would work with Unicode? It does. As the editor has also a file (Options -> Open Abbreviations file) to register abbreviations I can only recommend to forget WORD for the work described below. hh PS: Samples for Scite abbreviations: int=\\int_{|}^{} bd=\\begin{displaymath|} displaymath=equation equation=eqnarray eqnarray=eqnarray* eqnarray=displaymath The last part (input: bd) gives you the possibility to start with \begin{displaymath}, then just by typing "return"you can change to any of the other possibilites shown in the sample or coming back to the first. The \vert-symbol let's you put the cursor at its place. From: texhax-request at tug.org Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 417 To: texhax at tug.org Send reply to: texhax at tug.org Date sent: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 05:59:06 +0200 > Recently, I have developed a way to make typing a TeX style document > relatively easy. > I did that by using the facility Autocorrect in Microsoft > WORD. > > This allows me to write the command for say an integral with both upper > and > lower limit by simply typing (in WORD) int; or alpha by typing a2, or beta > by typing b2, or prime by typing pr etc. When you do that in WORD the > augmented Autocorrect facility will type in the document \int or \alpha, > or > \beta or \prime etc. > When the typing of TeX style file is completed I use the Save As command > in > WORD. But the options > I am offered do not allow me to use this file in PCTeX to produce a dvi or > pdf file. > > The only version I see in the Save As dialog box, that preserves the > appearance of the file, and which I have used, is Unicode, which lists > the > file as xxx.txt. > > However, when I try to use this file on PCTeX I see on screen a file all > of > whose entries are nulled and the program cannot use it to produce dvi or > pdf.. > Is there a solution to this problem? It seems there must be. > Thank you > P.J. Dhrymes. > > P.S. I attach a small file produced as I have explained, typed on WORD and > saved as Unicode. From philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it Sat Oct 24 14:32:44 2009 From: philip.ratcliffe at fastwebnet.it (Philip G. Ratcliffe) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 14:32:44 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Difficulty with using PCTeX to compile a .txt file inUnicode In-Reply-To: <2DDF1BE603234776960CA0D5A6EBFF0C@PDQUAD> Message-ID: > Recently, I have developed a way to make typing a TeX style document > relatively easy. > I did that by using the facility Autocorrect in Microsoft > WORD. > > This allows me to write the command for say an integral with > both upper and lower limit by simply typing (in WORD) int; or > alpha by typing a2, or beta > by typing b2, or prime by typing pr etc. When you do that in > WORD the > augmented Autocorrect facility will type in the document \int > or \alpha, or > \beta or \prime etc. > When the typing of TeX style file is completed I use the > Save As command in > WORD. But the options > I am offered do not allow me to use this file in PCTeX to > produce a dvi or pdf file. > > The only version I see in the Save As dialog box, that preserves the > appearance of the file, and which I have used, is Unicode, > which lists the file as xxx.txt. I have Word for XP and the "save as" dialogue asks me first the file type: I choose .txt but actually call it, say, myfile.tex, I then a get another dialogue box that, amongst other things, allows me to choose the encoding, which I leave as Windows (default) and I don't touch anything else. The resulting file works just fine with LaTeX. Cheers, Phil From ulrich.olsen at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 10:28:16 2009 From: ulrich.olsen at gmail.com (Ulrich Lindberg Olsen) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:28:16 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Pie chart Message-ID: <8DC0BE4A-DD0F-42FC-853B-EC57D4B8C44C@gmail.com> Hey I have tried to follow one of the exmples in the documentation on pstricks. It's the one starting on page 277 on doing a pie chart. For some reason I can't get it to work. I have attached my .tex file. Can you please tell me why it isn't working? -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: piechart.tex Type: application/octet-stream Size: 2335 bytes Desc: not available URL: -------------- next part -------------- Thanks Regards Ulrich Lindberg Olsen From axel.retif at mac.com Sat Oct 24 17:55:27 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 10:55:27 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Difficulty with using PCTeX to compile a .txt file in Unicode In-Reply-To: References: <2DDF1BE603234776960CA0D5A6EBFF0C@PDQUAD> <5926B7A3-2836-4C25-8E91-B0722D21BD93@mac.com> Message-ID: <3868D54F-FEF2-4166-80AE-3FB1F75A8502@mac.com> On 24 Oct, 2009, at 09:22, Adam M. Goldstein wrote: > I'm confused because I think Axel would have pointed this out---but > my understanding is that without the use of additional packages, TeX > and LaTeX will only process ASCII text. UTF8 won't work either. Yes, of course you're right ---you would have to put \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} in your preamble (is there support for utf16? I don't find anything) and preferably also \usepackage[T1]{fontenc} > If you really do like this Word method, you could probably Save As > plain text. Yes, that's probably the best. > I agree with Axel that something like TeXMaker would probably better > serve your needs. > > Dr. Adam M. Goldstein PhD, MSLIS > Department of Philosophy > Iona College Best, Axel From Herbert.Voss at FU-Berlin.DE Sat Oct 24 18:00:54 2009 From: Herbert.Voss at FU-Berlin.DE (Herbert Voss) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 18:00:54 +0200 Subject: [texhax] Pie chart In-Reply-To: <8DC0BE4A-DD0F-42FC-853B-EC57D4B8C44C@gmail.com> References: <8DC0BE4A-DD0F-42FC-853B-EC57D4B8C44C@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE324B6.9030806@FU-Berlin.DE> Ulrich Lindberg Olsen schrieb: > I have tried to follow one of the exmples in the documentation on > pstricks. It's the one starting on page 277 on doing a pie chart. For > some reason I can't get it to work. > > I have attached my .tex file. > > Can you please tell me why it isn't working? out the definition of the macro between \makeatletter ... \makeatother and use the optional argument of pstricks for the color names (see example) and you should have a look at pstricks-add, it has better support for pie charts. Herbert \documentclass[11pt,a4paper]{article} \usepackage[latin1]{inputenc} \usepackage[english]{babel} \usepackage{graphicx} \usepackage[dvipsnames,svgnames]{pstricks} \usepackage{pst-grad} \usepackage{multido} \usepackage{arrayjob} \makeatletter \def\PstPieChart#1#2#3#4{% % #1 = Values, #2 = Labels, #3 = Styles, #4 = Starting angle \pspicture(-2,-2)(2,2) % To compute in \pst at dimd the sum of all the values \pst at dimd=\z@ \Multido{\iNbValues=\z at +\@ne}{9999}{% \csname check#1\endcsname(\multidocount)% \ifemptydata \multidostop \else \advance\pst at dimd by \cachedata\p@ \fi} \degrees[\pst at number{\pst at dimd}] % To compute the starting angle \pst at dimh=\pst at dimd \divide\pst at dimh by 360 \multiply\pst at dimh by #4 % Loop on slices \multido{}{\iNbValues}{% % Slice \pst at dimg=\pst at dimh \csname check#1\endcsname(\multidocount)% \advance\pst at dimh by \cachedata\p@ \csname check#3\endcsname(\multidocount)% \pswedge[style=\cachedata]{2} {\pst at number{\pst at dimg}}{\pst at number{\pst at dimh}} % Label \advance\pst at dimg\pst at dimh \divide\pst at dimg\tw@ \uput{2.2}[\pst at number{\pst at dimg}](0,0){% \large\csname #2\endcsname(\multidocount)}} \endpspicture} \makeatother \newarray{\Values} \newarray{\Labels} \newarray{\Styles} \readarray{Values}{32.7 & 19.3 & 12.4 & 27.6 & 6.9} % Don't leave blanks between labels and between styles! \readarray{Labels}{1997&1998&1999&2000&2001} \readarray{Styles}{StyleGradientA&StyleGradientB&% StyleGradientC&StyleGradientD&StyleGradientE} \newpsstyle{}{}% For undefined styles \newpsstyle{StyleGradientA}{% fillstyle=gradient,gradbegin=LightBlue,gradend=NavyBlue} \newpsstyle{StyleGradientB}{% fillstyle=gradient,gradbegin=Pink,gradend=red} \newpsstyle{StyleGradientC}{% fillstyle=gradient,gradbegin=PaleGreen,gradend=ForestGreen} \newpsstyle{StyleGradientD}{% fillstyle=gradient,gradbegin=LemonChiffon,gradend=Gold} \newpsstyle{StyleGradientE}{% fillstyle=gradient,gradbegin=lightgray,gradend=black} \newpsstyle{StyleHatchA}{fillstyle=crosshatch} \newpsstyle{StyleSolidA}{fillstyle=solid,fillcolor=magenta} \begin{document} \psset{gradmidpoint=1}% \PstPieChart{Values}{Labels}{Styles}{0} %\hspace{1.5cm} %\Styles(5)={StyleHatchA} %\Values(6)={8.3}\Labels(6)={2002}\Styles(6)={StyleSolidA} %\PstPieChart{Values}{Labels}{Styles}{180} \end{document} From olegkat at gmail.com Sat Oct 24 18:39:31 2009 From: olegkat at gmail.com (Oleg Katsitadze) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:39:31 +0300 Subject: [texhax] Difficulty with using PCTeX to compile a .txt file in Unicode In-Reply-To: <3868D54F-FEF2-4166-80AE-3FB1F75A8502@mac.com> References: <2DDF1BE603234776960CA0D5A6EBFF0C@PDQUAD> <5926B7A3-2836-4C25-8E91-B0722D21BD93@mac.com> <3868D54F-FEF2-4166-80AE-3FB1F75A8502@mac.com> Message-ID: <20091024163931.GA16539@thor> On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:55:27AM -0500, Axel E. Retif wrote: > On 24 Oct, 2009, at 09:22, Adam M. Goldstein wrote: >> without the use of additional packages, TeX and >> LaTeX will only process ASCII text. UTF8 won't work either. > > Yes, of course you're right ---you would have to put > > \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} Note that UTF8 is backwards-compatible with ASCII, so if the text is strictly ASCII saving it as UTF8 will produce an ASCII text file (except maybe for the dumb BOM on Windows). > in your preamble (is there support for utf16? I don't find anything) While possible (probably), a package would not be sufficient, it would have to be done at the format file level or (even better) TeX engine level, because in UTF16 all characters (even ASCII) are at least a two-byte word. Best, Oleg From joao.oliveira at lx.it.pt Sat Oct 24 20:30:24 2009 From: joao.oliveira at lx.it.pt (=?iso-8859-1?Q?Jo=E3o_Oliveira?=) Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2009 19:30:24 +0100 Subject: [texhax] MakeUppercase with savebox Message-ID: <6B8196A1-160C-4AB4-85FA-B488E7BC3A54@lx.it.pt> Hi, I am having some trouble on doing the following. I would like to make command that defines a save box that flushes the text right and make it uppercase. I also would like it to accept new lines, so that I could issue something like: \name{This is\\ an example} \usebox{\mybox} and it would produce: THIS IS AN EXAMPLE (it is supposed to be aligned in the right). I have use the following definitions: \newcommand{\name}[1]{\mycommand{#1}} \newsavebox{\mybox} \newcommand{\mycommand}[1]{% \savebox{\mybox}{ \begin{minipage}{10cm}\begin{flushright} \MakeUppercase{#1}\end {flushright} \end{minipage} }} Why can't I use this with linebreaks? Without them it works... or without MakeUppercase I can have the line breaks... Can anyone have any clue? Best regards, Jo?o From axel.retif at mac.com Sun Oct 25 06:42:57 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 00:42:57 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Difficulty with using PCTeX to compile a .txt file in Unicode In-Reply-To: <20091024163931.GA16539@thor> References: <2DDF1BE603234776960CA0D5A6EBFF0C@PDQUAD> <5926B7A3-2836-4C25-8E91-B0722D21BD93@mac.com> <3868D54F-FEF2-4166-80AE-3FB1F75A8502@mac.com> <20091024163931.GA16539@thor> Message-ID: <6C2BDA08-49F6-40D2-AE8E-58F37D533E7F@mac.com> On 24 Oct, 2009, at 11:39, Oleg Katsitadze wrote: > On Sat, Oct 24, 2009 at 10:55:27AM -0500, Axel E. Retif wrote: >> On 24 Oct, 2009, at 09:22, Adam M. Goldstein wrote: >>> without the use of additional packages, TeX and >>> LaTeX will only process ASCII text. UTF8 won't work either. >> >> Yes, of course you're right ---you would have to put >> >> \usepackage[utf8]{inputenc} > > Note that UTF8 is backwards-compatible with ASCII, so if the text is > strictly ASCII saving it as UTF8 will produce an ASCII text file > (except maybe for the dumb BOM on Windows). That is the case with Dhrymes' sample file, identified by BBEdit as UTF-16 Little-Endian. >> in your preamble (is there support for utf16? I don't find anything) > > While possible (probably), a package would not be sufficient, it would > have to be done at the format file level or (even better) TeX engine > level, because in UTF16 all characters (even ASCII) are at least a > two-byte word. I see. Thanks for the explanation. Best, Axel From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sun Oct 25 07:10:02 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 06:10:02 +0000 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <20091025061004.CVNK21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> >>> Paul: The question concerns the correct amount of >>> horizontal spacing >>>between a single quote and a double quote mark. for example, >>>``\thinspace`bla bla'\thinspace'' >>>`\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' >>>or is it >> >>\thinspace is a bit too large, IMO. > >Of course one can make additional kerning spaces ? la \thinspace. I >usually use two extra positive thin spaces: > >\def\fino{\kern 0.1em } >\def\finito{\kern 0.05em } > >(\fino from Spanish ``thin'' and \finito from ``very thin'') > >and one negative: > >\def\finoneg{\kern -0.1em } Paul: Where would you use the negative thin spacing? I'm not quite sure of the concept of negative spacing, so any furhter clarification would be much appreciated. Incidentally, the above demos were inspired by Knuth's TeXBook. He uses \thinspace between the single and double quote marks but if you say the gap is too large then ... From axel.retif at mac.com Sun Oct 25 07:55:52 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 01:55:52 -0500 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: <20091025061004.CVNK21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> <20091025061004.CVNK21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: On 25 Oct, 2009, at 01:10, P. R. Stanley wrote: > >>>> Paul: The question concerns the correct amount of >>>> horizontal spacing >>>> between a single quote and a double quote mark. for example, >>>> ``\thinspace`bla bla'\thinspace'' >>>> `\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' >>>> or is it >>> >>> \thinspace is a bit too large, IMO. >> >> Of course one can make additional kerning spaces ? la \thinspace. I >> usually use two extra positive thin spaces: >> >> \def\fino{\kern 0.1em } >> \def\finito{\kern 0.05em } >> >> (\fino from Spanish ``thin'' and \finito from ``very thin'') >> >> and one negative: >> >> \def\finoneg{\kern -0.1em } > Paul: Where would you use the negative thin spacing? I'm not > quite sure of the concept of negative spacing, so any furhter > clarification would be much appreciated. For example, with some fonts, between a ^{\circ}, for degrees, and a comma or dot (but not colon or semicolon): $180^{\circ}$\finoneg. > Incidentally, the above demos were inspired by Knuth's TeXBook. He > uses \thinspace between the single and double quote marks but if you > say the gap is too large then ... It was Reinhard Kotucha who said that in > `\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' \thinspace looked to him too large. I think it depends on each font design ---with some fonts it might look OK; with other fonts maybe a thinner space might be necessary; and perhaps with another font no thin space is required at all. I remember a long discussion about it in the MinionPro mailing list. I tried the examples presented with InDesign, and discovered that the cases some people were complaining about looked the same in InDesign as in LaTeX; so it was the original design of the font, not the metrics created by the MinionPro project people. Best, Axel From prstanley at ntlworld.com Sun Oct 25 08:44:09 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 07:44:09 +0000 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> <20091025061004.CVNK21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <20091025074410.DCOV21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> >>>\def\fino{\kern 0.1em } >>>\def\finito{\kern 0.05em } >>> >>>(\fino from Spanish ``thin'' and \finito from ``very thin'') >>> >>>and one negative: >>> >>>\def\finoneg{\kern -0.1em } >> Paul: Where would you use the negative thin spacing? I'm not >>quite sure of the concept of negative spacing, so any furhter >>clarification would be much appreciated. > >For example, with some fonts, between a ^{\circ}, for degrees, and a >comma or dot (but not colon or semicolon): $180^{\circ}$\finoneg. > >> Paul: I'm sorry, I'm still not sure exactly what negative >> spacing does. Does it narrow the gap between two entities and if >> so is it the default length minus the negative kerning parameter? >>Incidentally, the above demos were inspired by Knuth's TeXBook. He >>uses \thinspace between the single and double quote marks but if you >>say the gap is too large then ... > >It was Reinhard Kotucha who said that in > >>`\thinspace``rabit rabit rabit''\thinspace' > >\thinspace looked to him too large. I think it depends on each font >design ---with some fonts it might look OK; with other fonts maybe a >thinner space might be necessary; and perhaps with another font no >thin space is required at all. > >I remember a long discussion about it in the MinionPro mailing list. I >tried the examples presented with InDesign, and discovered that the >cases some people were complaining about looked the same in InDesign >as in LaTeX; so it was the original design of the font, not the >metrics created by the MinionPro project people. Paul: In which case the question is, what class of fonts would suit what sort of spacing, or are there too many to list? If getting the right font and kerning combinations relies essentially on one's ability to "see", then what alternative would the list recommend? Many thanks Paul From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Sun Oct 25 11:18:46 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Sun, 25 Oct 2009 10:18:46 +0000 Subject: [texhax] correct spacing between adjacent quote marks In-Reply-To: <20091025074410.DCOV21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091018222648.DDDE2093.aamtaout03-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <19163.46668.655075.405197@zaphod.ms25.net> <20091025061004.CVNK21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> <20091025074410.DCOV21638.aamtaout02-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: <4AE42606.4080806@Rhul.Ac.Uk> P. R. Stanley wrote: > Paul: In which case the question is, what class of fonts would > suit what sort of spacing, or are there too many to list? > > If getting the right font and kerning combinations relies essentially on > one's ability to "see", then what alternative would the list recommend? This is one of the most interesting (and stimulating) questions I have ever encountered, because it challenges the very way in which I think about typography. As someone who is in the privileged position of being able to see, there are many many elements of fine tuning that I make to a document before I consider it finally ready for release. In fact, I think if you ask Frank Mittlebach, he will tell you that in preparing the LaTeX series of books, the 10% that is the fine-tuning actually requires 90% of the total time. Now your question -- which I think is a very reasonable one -- is "could someone who cannot see perform this fine-tuning ?", and if (as I suspect) the answer to that is "probably not", then "what additional steps could such a person take in order to ensure that no fine-tuning is actually needed ?". The answer to the latter question seems to me to be at the heart of the matter. In practice, if fine-tuning is to be avoidable, then every step of the process has to be very carefully automated, and the person responsible for each element has to ensure that his or her contribution can be used without any need to visually check the result. Let me give an example. Suppose you were writing a book, and you wanted to typeset the following passage of dialogue : \parindent = 0 em \parskip = 1 ex \hsize = 16,5 pc Jill said, somewhat casually, ``I was having lunch today at `Pod Samsonek'''. ``What?'', Jim interrupted, ```Pod Samsonek' as in the famous Warszawa restaurant?!'' \end The result of typesetting this passage in TeX is not only ugly, it's actually wrong : TeX interprets the sequence of three consecutive closing quotation marks as meaning whereas the author actually intended (and required) the converse. Therefore, to mark up such passages successfully, it is necessary to augment the low-level markup with one or more macros, the function of which is to clarify the semantic nature of the markup and thereby to ensure that the results are as intended. This can be accomplished as follows : \parindent = 0 em \parskip = 1 ex \hsize = 16,5 pc \def \lq {{`}} \def \rq {{'}} \def \lqq {{``}} \def \rqq {{''}} Jill said, somewhat casually, \lqq I was having lunch today at \lq Pod Samsonek\rq \rqq. \lqq What?\rqq, Jim interrupted, \lqq \lq Pod Samsonek' as in the famous Warszawa restaurant?!\rq \rqq \end This generates semantically correct output, but many would argue that it still leaves something to be desired. For example, the spacing between consecutive quotation marks could be increased, tall punctuation (such an the interrogative and exclamation marks) set off by a small amount of white space and so on. Rather than having to do this laboriously throughout the text, the obvious step would be to introduce a little AI[1] into the code. The \lq, \lqq, \rq and \rqq macros could use look-ahead to see if each is followed by another of the family, and if so, some additional spacing introduced. The interrogative and exclamation marks could be made active, and could similarly become self-spacing. But there is an alternative. Remember that, within a single font, kerning (the choice of spacing between consecutive glyphs) is a function of the font. It would therefore be possible to implement a so-called /virtual/ font that performs the same tasks as the macros and active characters of the preceding paragraph. Since virtual fonts "know" what glyphs follow, all possible combinations can be specified and optimised for spacing. But ultimately, no matter how one attempts to automate the task, the final decision is /essentially/ a visual one : I do not think that AI and AT[2] have yet advanced to the point where someone who cannot see can be /certain/ that the spacing of a document is absolutely optimal, since the whole purpose of the spacing is to provide visual cues and clues for a sighted reader. Yes, Beethoven composed amazing music even when he was almost totally deaf, but for many deaf people, that would be a nigh-impossible task. And I suspect (with sadness) that the same is probably true for typography : because it is intended to communicate /visually/, it is very hard indeed for a person who cannot see to produce results that cannot be improved, although if the typesetting engine, macros and fonts have all been designed perfectly, then the achievable results will almost certainly be more than acceptable to 99,9% of the readers. Philip TAYLOR -------- [1] AI : Artificial Intelligence [2] AT : Assistive Technology From wes at hef.ru.nl Mon Oct 26 15:57:52 2009 From: wes at hef.ru.nl (W.J. Metzger) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 15:57:52 +0100 (CET) Subject: [texhax] best way to revise a large existing text In-Reply-To: <20091023101618.GA4238@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net> References: <20090922134130.GA13574@lapse.rw.madduck.net> <200909221500.n8MF0pPC018794@bilbo.localnet> <20091023101618.GA4238@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net> Message-ID: On Fri, 23 Oct 2009, martin f. krafft wrote: > also sprach Boris Veytsman [2009.09.22.1700 +0200]: >> Try latexdiff, http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/latexdiff/ > > That was a marvelous suggestion. Thanks. It sounded good to me too. So I downloaded it and tried it -- works fine on small tex files, but when I tried it on 'real' files it results in a segmentation fault. Do others also have this experience? Cheers, Wes Dr. W. J. Metzger Experimental High Energy Physics Group tel. +31-24-3653127 Faculty of Science +31-24-3652099 (secr.) Radboud University Nijmegen fax. +31-24-3652191 Heyendaalseweg 135 6525 AJ Nijmegen, The Netherlands e-mail: wes at hef.ru.nl or Wesley.Metzger at cern.ch http://home.cern.ch/metzger/ or http://www.hef.ru.nl/~wes From toms at ncifcrf.gov Mon Oct 26 21:58:51 2009 From: toms at ncifcrf.gov (Tom Schneider) Date: Mon, 26 Oct 2009 16:58:51 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] best way to revise a large existing text In-Reply-To: from "W.J. Metzger" at "Oct 26, 2009 10:57:52 am" Message-ID: <200910262058.n9QKwp8F021715@strawberry.ncifcrf.gov> Wes: > >> Try latexdiff, http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/latexdiff/ > > That was a marvelous suggestion. Thanks. > > It sounded good to me too. So I downloaded it and tried it -- works fine > on small tex files, but when I tried it on 'real' files it results in a > segmentation fault. Do others also have this experience? In general, yes. Obviously the best thing to do is to cut your file in half successively to locate the problem. (Each 50% cut tells you one bit of information as to the position. :-) But be sure that both files run cleanly in LaTeX alone, that could be a problem if they don't. Tom Dr. Thomas D. Schneider National Institutes of Health 240-367-4179 (cell) schneidt at mail.nih.gov toms at alum.mit.edu (permanent) http://alum.mit.edu/www/toms (permanent) From dmitriid at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 09:48:41 2009 From: dmitriid at gmail.com (Dmitrii Dimandt) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:48:41 +0200 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem Message-ID: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> Hi all. I've ran into a strange problem with \includegraphics. If I pass any parameters to it, it renders the parameters, not the image. That is: \includegraphics[width=0.5]{logo.eps} renders text width=0.5 \includegraphics[scale=10]{logo.eps} renders text scale=10 \includegraphics[height=5cm]{logo.eps} renders text height=5cm \includegraphics{logo.eps} renders the image It doesnt matter if I try to include eps or png or jpg. I'm at loss here, can't understand why this happens :) It used to work perfectly ok until a did a clean OS (MacOS Snow Leopard) reinstall and installed latest TexLive. Does anyone have any idea why this might be happening? From martin at oneiros.de Tue Oct 27 10:21:57 2009 From: martin at oneiros.de (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Martin_Schr=F6der?=) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:21:57 +0100 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem In-Reply-To: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> References: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <68c491a60910270221s6b044ff3o63418eb415d4993f@mail.gmail.com> 2009/10/27 Dmitrii Dimandt : > I've ran into a strange problem with \includegraphics. If I pass any > parameters to it, it renders the parameters, not the image. That is: Study the log file. Minimal example? Best Martin From joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk Tue Oct 27 10:33:01 2009 From: joseph.wright at morningstar2.co.uk (Joseph Wright) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:33:01 +0000 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem In-Reply-To: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> References: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE6BE4D.6020201@morningstar2.co.uk> Dmitrii Dimandt wrote: > Hi all. > > I've ran into a strange problem with \includegraphics. If I pass any > parameters to it, it renders the parameters, not the image. That is: > > \includegraphics[width=0.5]{logo.eps} > renders text width=0.5 > > \includegraphics[scale=10]{logo.eps} > renders text scale=10 > > \includegraphics[height=5cm]{logo.eps} > renders text height=5cm > > \includegraphics{logo.eps} > renders the image > > > It doesnt matter if I try to include eps or png or jpg. > > I'm at loss here, can't understand why this happens :) It used to work > perfectly ok until a did a clean OS (MacOS Snow Leopard) reinstall and > installed latest TexLive. > > Does anyone have any idea why this might be happening? Please post a full example (starting with \documentclass and ending \end{document}). There may well be something else going on here that we need to see! -- Joseph Wright From prstanley at ntlworld.com Tue Oct 27 10:47:29 2009 From: prstanley at ntlworld.com (P. R. Stanley) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:47:29 +0000 Subject: [texhax] Sign Your Name Message-ID: <20091027094724.CVGZ22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Hi folks Is there a specific style, in LaTeX, that the list would recommend for typsetting a name at the bottom of a letter or a receipt where one could put one's siganture? Thanks Paul From dmitriid at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 10:54:20 2009 From: dmitriid at gmail.com (Dmitrii Dimandt) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 11:54:20 +0200 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem In-Reply-To: <68c491a60910270221s6b044ff3o63418eb415d4993f@mail.gmail.com> References: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> <68c491a60910270221s6b044ff3o63418eb415d4993f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: On Oct 27, 2009, at 11:21 , Martin Schr?der wrote: > 2009/10/27 Dmitrii Dimandt : >> I've ran into a strange problem with \includegraphics. If I pass any >> parameters to it, it renders the parameters, not the image. That is: > > Study the log file. > > Minimal example? > Indeed, clean forgot about that :) \documentclass[a4paper]{article} \usepackage[english,russian,turkish]{babel} \usepackage{pstricks} \usepackage{pstricks-add} \usepackage{graphicx} \begin{document} \includegraphics[width=5cm]{logo.eps} \end{document} Oddly enough, babel seems to interfere. Commenting babel out makes the image appear. The log shows no errors whatsoever. There's only one warning for the minimal example: No input encoding specified for Russian language. > Best > Martin > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Tue Oct 27 11:30:28 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:30:28 +0000 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem In-Reply-To: References: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> <68c491a60910270221s6b044ff3o63418eb415d4993f@mail.gmail.com> Message-ID: <4AE6CBC4.3080004@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Dmitrii Dimandt wrote: > Oddly enough, babel seems to interfere. Commenting babel out makes the > image appear. It's not Babel, it's /Turkish/ Babel ! Try the following -- \documentclass[a4paper]{article} \usepackage [ english, russian, % turkish ] {babel} \usepackage{pstricks} \usepackage{pstricks-add} \usepackage{graphicx} \begin{document} \includegraphics[width=5cm]{logo.eps} \end{document} Philip TAYLOR From dmitriid at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 12:27:46 2009 From: dmitriid at gmail.com (Dmitrii Dimandt) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:27:46 +0200 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem In-Reply-To: <4AE6CBC4.3080004@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> <68c491a60910270221s6b044ff3o63418eb415d4993f@mail.gmail.com> <4AE6CBC4.3080004@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <4F169F48-E616-47C0-A7ED-67AF4FCDF50E@gmail.com> On Oct 27, 2009, at 12:30 , Philip TAYLOR wrote: > > > Dmitrii Dimandt wrote: > >> Oddly enough, babel seems to interfere. Commenting babel out makes >> the image appear. > > It's not Babel, it's /Turkish/ Babel ! Try the following -- > > \documentclass[a4paper]{article} > > \usepackage > [ > english, > russian, > % turkish > ] > {babel} > > \usepackage{pstricks} > \usepackage{pstricks-add} > \usepackage{graphicx} > > > \begin{document} > \includegraphics[width=5cm]{logo.eps} > \end{document} > > Philip TAYLOR Spot on! Turkish causes the problem. Thank you! Hm, now I'm wondering why this is the case :) I don't really need Turkish right now, but I may in the future... From news3 at nililand.de Tue Oct 27 12:54:09 2009 From: news3 at nililand.de (Ulrike Fischer) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:54:09 +0100 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem References: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> <68c491a60910270221s6b044ff3o63418eb415d4993f@mail.gmail.com> <4AE6CBC4.3080004@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4F169F48-E616-47C0-A7ED-67AF4FCDF50E@gmail.com> Message-ID: Am Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:27:46 +0200 schrieb Dmitrii Dimandt: > Spot on! Turkish causes the problem. Thank you! > > Hm, now I'm wondering why this is the case :) I don't really need > Turkish right now, but I may in the future... Turkish makes the "=" active. So normally you would get a lot of errors because of the =. But one of the pstricks packages loads xkeyval which sanitze the catcodes in key-val list, but now something else seems to fail. But you can use \shorthandoff: \documentclass[a4paper]{article} \usepackage[turkish]{babel} \usepackage{xkeyval} \usepackage{graphicx} \begin{document} \shorthandoff{=} \includegraphics[width=5cm]{tiger} \end{document} -- Ulrike Fischer From vi5u0-texhax at yahoo.co.uk Tue Oct 27 13:01:30 2009 From: vi5u0-texhax at yahoo.co.uk (Dan Hatton) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:01:30 +0000 (GMT) Subject: [texhax] Sign Your Name In-Reply-To: <20091027094724.CVGZ22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> References: <20091027094724.CVGZ22934.aamtaout04-winn.ispmail.ntl.com@pine.ntlworld.com> Message-ID: On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, P. R. Stanley wrote: > Is there a specific style, in LaTeX, that the list would recommend for > typsetting a name at the bottom of a letter or a receipt where one could put > one's siganture? There's a standard document class called letter, which has macros for this sort of thing. It's documented at . -- HTH, Dan From dmitriid at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 13:46:08 2009 From: dmitriid at gmail.com (Dmitrii Dimandt) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 14:46:08 +0200 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem In-Reply-To: References: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F@gmail.com> <68c491a60910270221s6b044ff3o63418eb415d4993f@mail.gmail.com> <4AE6CBC4.3080004@Rhul.Ac.Uk> <4F169F48-E616-47C0-A7ED-67AF4FCDF50E@gmail.com> Message-ID: <90ABD077-AFAF-4DAD-9884-C50490097364@gmail.com> On Oct 27, 2009, at 13:54 , Ulrike Fischer wrote: > Am Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:27:46 +0200 schrieb Dmitrii Dimandt: > > >> Spot on! Turkish causes the problem. Thank you! >> >> Hm, now I'm wondering why this is the case :) I don't really need >> Turkish right now, but I may in the future... > > Turkish makes the "=" active. So normally you would get a lot of > errors because of the =. But one of the pstricks packages loads > xkeyval which sanitze the catcodes in key-val list, but now > something else seems to fail. But you can use \shorthandoff: > > \documentclass[a4paper]{article} > \usepackage[turkish]{babel} > \usepackage{xkeyval} > \usepackage{graphicx} > > \begin{document} > \shorthandoff{=} > \includegraphics[width=5cm]{tiger} > > \end{document} > > -- > Ulrike Fischer Thank you!! It now works From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Tue Oct 27 16:01:57 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:01:57 -0200 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AE6EF45.23541.155ABD5@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> May I ask if you use graphics or graphicx package? hh From: texhax-request at tug.org Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 421 To: texhax at tug.org Send reply to: texhax at tug.org Date sent: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:00:02 +0100 > Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem > Message-ID: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F at gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > Hi all. > > I've ran into a strange problem with \includegraphics. If I pass any > parameters to it, it renders the parameters, not the image. That is: > > \includegraphics[width=0.5]{logo.eps} > renders text width=0.5 > > \includegraphics[scale=10]{logo.eps} > renders text scale=10 > > \includegraphics[height=5cm]{logo.eps} > renders text height=5cm > > \includegraphics{logo.eps} > renders the image From dmitriid at gmail.com Tue Oct 27 16:12:45 2009 From: dmitriid at gmail.com (Dmitrii Dimandt) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:12:45 +0200 Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem In-Reply-To: <4AE6EF45.23541.155ABD5@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> References: <4AE6EF45.23541.155ABD5@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: On Oct 27, 2009, at 17:01 , hh wrote: > May I ask if you use graphics or graphicx package? > hh > graphicx The problem has been solved. It was caused by \include[turkish]{babel} It can be solved by placing \shorthandoff{=} right after \begin {document} (see Ulrike Fischer's comment earlier in this thread) > From: texhax-request at tug.org > Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 421 > To: texhax at tug.org > Send reply to: texhax at tug.org > Date sent: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:00:02 +0100 > >> Subject: [texhax] \includegraphics problem >> Message-ID: <04601150-15FD-40DB-8A29-CD0D64575E6F at gmail.com> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed; delsp=yes >> >> Hi all. >> >> I've ran into a strange problem with \includegraphics. If I pass any >> parameters to it, it renders the parameters, not the image. That is: >> >> \includegraphics[width=0.5]{logo.eps} >> renders text width=0.5 >> >> \includegraphics[scale=10]{logo.eps} >> renders text scale=10 >> >> \includegraphics[height=5cm]{logo.eps} >> renders text height=5cm >> >> \includegraphics{logo.eps} >> renders the image > > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org From swami at mun.ca Tue Oct 27 16:20:38 2009 From: swami at mun.ca (P. P. Narayanaswami) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:50:38 -0230 Subject: [texhax] DevanagariTeX 2.14.1 and Pagenumbering Message-ID: <1256656838.4ae70fc6b200f@webmail.mun.ca> I recently upgraded to MiklTeX 2.8 and installed DevanagariTeX 2.14.1. When I use the preamble \renewcommand\thepage{{\dn\dnnum \arabic{page}}} to invoke pagenumberings in Devanagari, and then LaTeX (pdfLaTeX) the file, I get an error message !Illegal parameter number in definition of \HyPL at Prefix and the program refuses to create DVI (PDF) file. This error was not there in my old system with MikTeX 2.5 and DevanagariTeX 2.14, where everything worked smooth. Is there a bug in the DevanagariTeX 2.14.1 while invoking Devanagari page numbers? Also, if I delete the above command, and if I use hyperref, then the Table of Contents get messed up. What is the remedy? From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Tue Oct 27 16:30:49 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 13:30:49 -0200 Subject: [texhax] texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 421 In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AE6F609.3837.1701629@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> The logo.eps was not loaded with your sample. If you don't use turkish, it is loaded. \usepackage[english,russian]{babel} But why - I don' know. hh From: texhax-request at tug.org Subject: texhax Digest, Vol 2009, Issue 421 To: texhax at tug.org Send reply to: texhax at tug.org Date sent: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:00:02 +0100 > \documentclass[a4paper]{article} > > \usepackage[english,russian,turkish]{babel} > > \usepackage{pstricks} > \usepackage{pstricks-add} > \usepackage{graphicx} > > > \begin{document} > \includegraphics[width=5cm]{logo.eps} > \end{document} From tjkoszyl at umich.edu Tue Oct 27 15:33:23 2009 From: tjkoszyl at umich.edu (Tomek Koszylko) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:33:23 -0400 Subject: [texhax] Where to find courses in LaTeX? Message-ID: <007201ca5712$706649a0$5132dce0$@edu> Hi, I'm not sure if I am writing to the correct recipient, but I am trying to find a course in using LaTeX; specifically to create statistics-heavy presentations (tables, graphs, data plots, some equations). I know this is a narrow request, so perhaps an introductory course would be easier to locate. I see that TUG has a yearly conference and that the next one is in June 2010 in San Francisco. As a neophyte to the programming language, I don't know if this conference will be too advanced, or if introductory material is available there. Also, I'd like to find something a bit sooner than seven months from now, but google searching has not been terribly useful in finding any classes/courses/seminars, etc. Thank you for taking the time to read this; I hope to hear from you soon. If you do not have an answer, but know who I can contact (or where on the internet to look), I would be happy for that information as well. Sincerely, Tomek Koszylko ................................. Tomek Koszylko University of Michigan Law School University of Michigan School of Public Health 300 Nob Hill Ct, #3 Ann Arbor, MI 48103 PHONE: (718) 812-8561 E-MAIL: tjkoszyl at umich.edu ................................. -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From borisv at lk.net Tue Oct 27 17:54:31 2009 From: borisv at lk.net (Boris Veytsman) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:54:31 -0400 Subject: [texhax] Where to find courses in LaTeX? In-Reply-To: <007201ca5712$706649a0$5132dce0$@edu> (tjkoszyl@umich.edu) References: <007201ca5712$706649a0$5132dce0$@edu> Message-ID: <200910271654.n9RGsVDc008461@bilbo.localnet> TK> From: "Tomek Koszylko" TK> Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 10:33:23 -0400 TK> I'm not sure if I am writing to the correct recipient, but I am TK> trying to find a course in using LaTeX; specifically to create TK> statistics-heavy presentations (tables, graphs, data plots, some TK> equations). I know this is a narrow request, so perhaps an TK> introductory course would be easier to locate. Well, there is a list of consultants here: http://www.tug.org/consultants.html. Unfortunately I do not see anybody close to Michigan there. I myself sometimes teach courses like this. If you wish, we can organize a telecom class using, for example, Skype. -- Good luck -Boris Against his wishes, a math teacher's classroom was remodeled. Ever since, he's been talking about the good old dais. His students planted a small orchard in his honor; the trees all have square roots. From glhoffman at cox.net Tue Oct 27 18:59:02 2009 From: glhoffman at cox.net (Gary Hoffman) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 12:59:02 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Using latex to prepare memorandum Message-ID: <1256666342.3525.2.camel@gary-linux> There is a plain tex package for preparing a memorandum. Is anyone aware of a Latex package with the same purpose? If not, any suggestions on creating a template? Thanks, Gary Hoffman From alan at alphabyte.co.nz Tue Oct 27 20:47:07 2009 From: alan at alphabyte.co.nz (Alan T Litchfield) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:47:07 +1300 Subject: [texhax] Where to find courses in LaTeX? In-Reply-To: <007201ca5712$706649a0$5132dce0$@edu> References: <007201ca5712$706649a0$5132dce0$@edu> Message-ID: <995C0D40-EEB1-4667-A0D8-6334F0913E14@alphabyte.co.nz> Tomek, Some institutions have internal courses for LaTeX, but there are quite a few online tutorials, books, etc. and of course there are the mailing lists for when you can't find the answer elsewhere. 1. Get George Gratzer's book "More Math into LaTeX". It covers all the aspects you referred to. 2. Get the LaTeX Companion, 2nd ed. 3. There are some online tutorials at - http://www.andy-roberts.net/misc/latex/ - http://theoval.cmp.uea.ac.uk/~nlct/latex/ - http://tug.org/tutorials/tugindia/ HIH Alan On 28/10/2009, at 3:33 AM, Tomek Koszylko wrote: > Hi, > I?m not sure if I am writing to the correct recipient, but I am > trying to find a course in using LaTeX; specifically to create > statistics-heavy presentations (tables, graphs, data plots, some > equations). I know this is a narrow request, so perhaps an > introductory course would be easier to locate. I see that TUG has a > yearly conference and that the next one is in June 2010 in San > Francisco. As a neophyte to the programming language, I don?t know > if this conference will be too advanced, or if introductory material > is available there. Also, I?d like to find something a bit sooner > than seven months from now, but google searching has not been > terribly useful in finding any classes/courses/seminars, etc. > > Thank you for taking the time to read this; I hope to hear from you > soon. If you do not have an answer, but know who I can contact (or > where on the internet to look), I would be happy for that > information as well. > > Sincerely, > Tomek Koszylko > > ................................. > Tomek Koszylko > University of Michigan Law School > University of Michigan School of Public Health > 300 Nob Hill Ct, #3 > Ann Arbor, MI 48103 > PHONE: (718) 812-8561 > E-MAIL: tjkoszyl at umich.edu > ................................. > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice From tomfool at as220.org Tue Oct 27 20:52:14 2009 From: tomfool at as220.org (tom sgouros) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:52:14 -0400 Subject: [texhax] Using latex to prepare memorandum In-Reply-To: <1256670147.5745.4.camel@gary-linux> References: <1256666342.3525.2.camel@gary-linux> <633.1256669648@as220.org> <1256670147.5745.4.camel@gary-linux> Message-ID: <4998.1256673134@as220.org> This is nothing to write home about, but it's serviceable, and perhaps you can use it to make something worthwhile. -tom Gary Hoffman wrote: > Thanks. At least it's feasible. Which letter format did you use? Not > KOMA-Script by any chance? > > Gary > > On Tue, 2009-10-27 at 14:54 -0400, tom sgouros wrote: > > I've hacked up the letter class in the past to make a nice memo. But it > > wasn't really anything worth sharing. > > > > -tom > > > %% Begin tsmemo.cls \typeout{Tom's memo class -- Tom Sgouros - 2007} \NeedsTeXFormat{LaTeX2e} \newif\if at pagenos\@pagenostrue \DeclareOption{nopagenos}{\message{Omitting page numbers}\@pagenosfalse} \ExecuteOptions{letterpaper,12pt,oneside,onecolumn,final} \DeclareOption*{\PassOptionsToClass{\CurrentOption}{letter}} \ProcessOptions\relax \LoadClass{letter} \RequirePackage[margin=1in,lmargin=1.25in]{geometry} \renewcommand{\rmdefault}{ptm} \renewcommand{\sfdefault}{phv} \renewcommand{\ttdefault}{cmtt} \newcommand{\toaddress}[1]{\def\@toaddress{#1}} \newcommand{\subject}[1]{\def\@subject{#1}} \renewcommand{\opening}[1]{% {\raggedright\hspace{-1ex}\begin{tabular}{ll@{}} \ignorespaces% To: & \@toaddress \\% From: & Tom Sgouros \\% Date: & \@date \\% Re: & \@subject \\% \end{tabular}\par}% \vspace{2\parskip}% #1\par\nobreak} \endinput %% \documentclass{tsmemo} %% \begin{document} %% \toaddress{Gary Hoffman} %% \subject{memo class} %% \begin{letter}{Hi there} %% \opening %% Hello. %% \end{letter} %% \end{document} %% %% End of file `tsmemo.cls'. -- -------------------------------------------------------- Check out "Ten Things You Don't Know About Rhode Island" http://whatcheer.net http://sgouros.com From juergen.fenn at GMX.DE Tue Oct 27 21:07:07 2009 From: juergen.fenn at GMX.DE (Juergen Fenn) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 21:07:07 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Using latex to prepare memorandum In-Reply-To: <1256666342.3525.2.camel@gary-linux> References: <1256666342.3525.2.camel@gary-linux> Message-ID: <4AE752EB.1040004@GMX.DE> Gary Hoffman schrieb: > There is a plain tex package for preparing a memorandum. Is anyone aware > of a Latex package with the same purpose? If not, any suggestions on > creating a template? Writing Letters, Faxes, Memos, and Newsletters: http://texcatalogue.sarovar.org/bytopic.html#letters Meeting protocols: http://texcatalogue.sarovar.org/bytopic.html#meetingprotocols HTH, J?rgen. From karl at freefriends.org Tue Oct 27 21:22:36 2009 From: karl at freefriends.org (Karl Berry) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 15:22:36 -0500 Subject: [texhax] Where to find courses in LaTeX? In-Reply-To: <007201ca5712$706649a0$5132dce0$@edu> Message-ID: <200910272022.n9RKMac27861@f7.net> Hi Tomek, I see that TUG has a yearly conference and that the next one is in June 2010 in San Francisco. As a neophyte to the programming language, I don't know if this conference will be too advanced, or if introductory material is available there. I expect there will be material at all levels; there always is. We always offer a one-day introductory-to-intermediate LaTeX workshop. This year it will be on the second day (Tuesday, June 29), and it'll be possible to sign up just for that, if you wish. Also, I'd like to find something a bit sooner than seven months from In addition to Boris's reply, you might check around with the UMich math and computer science depts. Perhaps they have a small seminar on (La)TeX; some universities do that for their students. Thanks for writing, Karl From alan at alphabyte.co.nz Tue Oct 27 21:28:47 2009 From: alan at alphabyte.co.nz (Alan T Litchfield) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:28:47 +1300 Subject: [texhax] Using latex to prepare memorandum In-Reply-To: <1256666342.3525.2.camel@gary-linux> References: <1256666342.3525.2.camel@gary-linux> Message-ID: Here's a few links on CTAN: http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/memo-pln.html http://tug.ctan.org/pub/tex-archive/macros/latex209/contrib/memo/ http://tug.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/lamemo.html You can search for packages on CTAN by going to tug.ctan.org or your nearest mirror. Alan On 28/10/2009, at 6:59 AM, Gary Hoffman wrote: > There is a plain tex package for preparing a memorandum. Is anyone > aware > of a Latex package with the same purpose? If not, any suggestions on > creating a template? > > Thanks, > > Gary Hoffman > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice From axel.retif at mac.com Wed Oct 28 02:47:11 2009 From: axel.retif at mac.com (Axel E. Retif) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 19:47:11 -0600 Subject: [texhax] Where to find courses in LaTeX? In-Reply-To: <007201ca5712$706649a0$5132dce0$@edu> References: <007201ca5712$706649a0$5132dce0$@edu> Message-ID: On 27 Oct, 2009, at 08:33, Tomek Koszylko wrote: > I?m not sure if I am writing to the correct recipient, but I am > trying to find a course in using LaTeX; specifically to create > statistics-heavy presentations (tables, graphs, data plots, some > equations). Besides the two books Alan recommended, which are my constant references in my work, and the excellent TUG India tutorials, I would advice you first to take a look at lshort.pdf here: http://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/info/lshort/english/ and then, for what I understand of your needs, Dr. Nicola Talbot's amazing datatool package (which, I must confess, I haven't used yet); see datatool.pdf: http://ctan.tug.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/datatool/ It uses internally another LaTeX package, which I use constantly: TikZ; see examples of it here: http://www.texample.net/tikz/examples/ LaTeX learning curve is steep, but, no doubt, worthwhile. Best, Axel From cbill.lam at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 03:03:38 2009 From: cbill.lam at gmail.com (bill lam) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:03:38 +0800 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex Message-ID: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> I'm unfamiliar with both tex and latex. Should my time better spent on learning tex or latex? Presumably learning curve of tex is even more steeper than that of latex, but I saw some forum members said they use plain tex. I would like to know before deciding, 1. Do common packages such as supertabular and cjk work on tex? 2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that true? 3. What will be the advantage of plain tex over latex? -- regards, ==================================================== GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 From alan at alphabyte.co.nz Wed Oct 28 03:30:59 2009 From: alan at alphabyte.co.nz (Alan T Litchfield) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:30:59 +1300 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> Message-ID: Bill, Your time, if considering only those two options, would be better spent learning LaTeX. IMHO but YMMV. They are not divorced however. Alan On 28/10/2009, at 3:03 PM, bill lam wrote: > I'm unfamiliar with both tex and latex. Should my time better spent on > learning tex or latex? Presumably learning curve of tex is even more > steeper than that of latex, but I saw some forum members said they use > plain tex. I would like to know before deciding, > > 1. Do common packages such as supertabular and cjk work on tex? > 2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that > true? > 3. What will be the advantage of plain tex over latex? > > -- > regards, > ==================================================== > GPG key 1024D/4434BAB3 2008-08-24 > gpg --keyserver subkeys.pgp.net --recv-keys 4434BAB3 > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice From pierre.mackay at comcast.net Wed Oct 28 06:35:59 2009 From: pierre.mackay at comcast.net (Pierre MacKay) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 22:35:59 -0700 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> Message-ID: <4AE7D83F.9030806@comcast.net> On 10/27/2009 07:30 PM, Alan T Litchfield wrote: > Bill, > > Your time, if considering only those two options, would be better > spent learning LaTeX. IMHO but YMMV. > Alan Litchfield gave you one answer, which is the one most often offered. I have for years disagreed. LaTeX, which began as a clone of Brian Reid's Scribe based on the TeX typesetting engine (this is not always acknowledged, but is obvious from the terminology) has metastasized into a collection of often well-designed routines, which are accessible only through a sort of C++ syntax that I, for one, but not the only one, find bewildering. LaTeX commands ofter run you through 5 or more parameters that I simply have not the patience to deal with. My basic problem with LaTeX is that it has a genius for making simple things complex, and does so at every possible instance. It is nonsense to speak of LaTeX as developing, while TeX is not. LaTeX is a macro package built on top of TeX. It can not "develop" in the sense of altering the basic engine, because Donald Knuth has taken great care to ensure archival compatibility for all input files that ever ran in TeX3. If a package requires something that cannot be run in the basic TeX3 engine, it may not be called TeX. The fine tuning that is possible in a macro package based on plain TeX may be possible in LaTeX, but LaTeX, for its own protection, shuts off many avenues for such fine tuning, or at best, disguises them so thoroughly that you will have real difficulty discovering how to walk down them. The model for LaTeX has become the "black box", all too like Microsoft. Because it is released under GPL or similar provisions, the basic source code is always available, and that is a very good thing, but I have used plain TeX since 1984, and written pages of routines to do finely adjusted formating which I use for publication in academic journals, and it is not clear to me that the documentation model for LaTeX is seriously better than the comments in my macro package. I can rarely understand what LaTeX docs are saying, owing to the C++ syntax that runs throughout them. If you are satisfied with LaTeX formating, you should probably go with it. I think it is often slovenly, and though I am assured that, since LaTeX is ultimately built on top of plain TeX, it would be possible to get rid of the slovenliness, I have never thought that I had the time to put into that. Finally, the advantage of plain.tex over LaTeX is that you remain in control. With LaTeX, you are left in a position that is far too like what Microsoft Word offers you: "We know better than you do what you want"---again with the important proviso that you are always free to read all the source macros of LaTeX, but that is never the case for the source code of Word. Pierre MacKay From alan at alphabyte.co.nz Wed Oct 28 07:09:10 2009 From: alan at alphabyte.co.nz (Alan T Litchfield) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 19:09:10 +1300 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <4AE7D83F.9030806@comcast.net> References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> <4AE7D83F.9030806@comcast.net> Message-ID: <40B4417C-4214-4DD6-8B46-FB64EB1B127B@alphabyte.co.nz> Hi Pierre, Well, as I said, it was my opinion and maybe it was not yours but I never said it was. I also said that the OP's mileage might vary from mine. On 28/10/2009, at 6:35 PM, Pierre MacKay wrote: > On 10/27/2009 07:30 PM, Alan T Litchfield wrote: >> Bill, >> >> Your time, if considering only those two options, would be better >> spent learning LaTeX. IMHO but YMMV. >> > Alan Litchfield gave you one answer, which is the one most often > offered. I have for years disagreed. And here your opinion starts. Great ;) > It is nonsense to speak of LaTeX as developing, while TeX is not. Umm. I don't remember saying that ??? I do remember saying that they are not divorced. > > If you are satisfied with LaTeX formating, you should probably go > with it. Gosh, thanks. But I will anyway and probably regardless of any conditions you deem it necessary for me to proceed. I do not feel it necessary to read all source macros. ;) Nga mihi Alan -- Alan T Litchfield AlphaByte PO Box 141, Auckland, 1140 New Zealand http://www.alphabyte.co.nz http://www.alphabyte.co.nz/beatrice From torsten.wagner at fh-aachen.de Wed Oct 28 08:04:28 2009 From: torsten.wagner at fh-aachen.de (Torsten Wagner) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:04:28 +0900 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <4AE7D83F.9030806@comcast.net> References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> <4AE7D83F.9030806@comcast.net> Message-ID: <200910281604.28781.torsten.wagner@fh-aachen.de> Dear Pierre, thanks for your post that is an really interesting aspect. I would be interested in some examples 1 to 1 where LaTeX is somehow more difficult or more complex to use compared to TeX. Really, no offending just like to see where is the differences. > Finally, the advantage of plain.tex over LaTeX is that you remain in > control. With LaTeX, you are left in a position that is far too like > what Microsoft Word offers you: "We know better than you do what you > want"---again with the important proviso that you are always free to > read all the source macros of LaTeX, but that is never the case for the > source code of Word. Beside the fact that I believe it is pretty unfair to compare LaTeX to MS Word ;) you self said LaTeX based on TeX thus, even if you are right and it really makes things more "out of control" ... finally it is still TeX right ?! ;) Let me add another point.... you said you work with TeX since 1984 (impressive date to start with some computer skills :) the big brother is watching you). Maybe during your education people were still concerned about type-setting and layout-rules. Together with your really impressive time of experience with TeX this might result that you are very well aware of all kind of typesetting rules and regulations. However, we have to face that most newcomers had to grow up with MS-Word in school. There is no need to say that this is a very very said situation. School should teach generic typesetting and layout rules and not using a proprietary product sponsored by an aggressive lobby with million of dollars to bring it down into the schools ready to make the rest of the world forever depending on there products. However, I believe that if you use, as a absolute beginner, LaTeX you might loose some of the fine grains of TeX but it also takes a lot of burdens away from you. Mostly things a beginner can even not answer if you point him to the fact. Here and in other lists, there are more and more questions of this type In MS-Word the .... but in TeX/LaTeX it is .... why ? And mostly the answer to those questions has to be... because MS Word is doing it wrong resp. ignoring it whereas LaTeX/TeX is taking care of it. This depict that many beginners have absolutely no idea about a proper page layout and proper typesetting rules. Would a beginner's pure TeX file not violate many general type-setting and layout-rules ? If so, the final result would be no better then a MS Word file created by a beginner, right ? Just my two cents Torsten From najmi.zabidi at gmail.com Wed Oct 28 08:17:12 2009 From: najmi.zabidi at gmail.com (Muhammad Najmi Ahmad Zabidi) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 15:17:12 +0800 Subject: [texhax] my 1st presentation with beamer Message-ID: Hello, Just to share: http://latex-my.blogspot.com/2009/10/my-first-presentation-with-latex.html -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 28 09:56:32 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:56:32 +0000 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> Message-ID: <4AE80740.8000804@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Dear Bill -- > I'm unfamiliar with both tex and latex. Should my time better spent on > learning tex or latex? Presumably learning curve of tex is even more > steeper than that of latex, but I saw some forum members said they use > plain tex. I would like to know before deciding, > > 1. Do common packages such as supertabular and cjk work on tex? Almost certainly not. When one speaks of a package (in this context), one is almost invariably speaking of a LaTeX package. > 2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that > true? LaTeX is being actively developed by the LaTeX 3 team (Frank Mittelbach, Chris Rowley and many others); TeX itself is frozen, but variants continue to emerge (eTeX, PdfTeX, LuaTeX, XeTeX, ...). However, this is like comparing chalk and cheese : the real question is "are new packages for Plain TeX being developed", to which the answer is almost certainly "no" (even I, who work almost entirely in Plain TeX, do not write "packages" in the strict sense of the word (well, not any more); rather, I develop solutions to whatever problems I currently face, and then (sometimes) present those solutions at conferences). > 3. What will be the advantage of plain tex over latex? There are a number of advantages, and some disadvantages. Advantages : 1) You get to understand how TeX works, at a really deep level. 2) You have the freedom to express your ideas exactly as you choose -- if you don't like the "backslash and brace" convention, you can design/implement/use another (say, an SGML/XML-like syntax, for example) 3) You are in complete control : if something doesn't work (or doesn't work as you would wish it), you can fix it (or at least try to fix it !). 4) You are forced to THINK. LaTeX tries to spoon-feed you canned solutions; with Plain TeX, there are no canned solutions -- everything you want to eat, you have to hunt, shoot, butcher and cook for yourself (or forage, gather and cook, if you happen to be a vegetarian). Disadvantages : 1) You cut yourself off from the incredibly wide range of LaTeX packages that have already been written. Even I, who am a died-in-the-wool Plain TeX aficionado, have been extremely impressed with the range and quality of these packages, which can -- used intelligently -- much simplify the more routine typesetting tasks. 2) You need document design skills. Although it could hardly be claimed that out-of-the-box LaTeX output is beautiful, it does at least heed the more important design considerations. I was surprised when I got this far that I could find only two disadvantages to the use of Plain TeX; I had genuinely thought that the number of advantages and disadvantages would be of the same order of magnitude. Perhaps my problem is that I continue to see Plain TeX through rose-coloured glasses, although I have recently come to accept that IF (big IF) I am prepared to work within the LaTeX framework, there is a large corpus of extant material on which I can call. Unfortunately I always think of LaTeX as a nanny-like figure who takes great care to protect little Johnny from all the nasty things that lurk in the grown-ups' world of Real TeX [tm], but who as an unfortunate side-effect stultifies his powers of expression, and forces him to think like "all the other nice little boys and girls that listen to their nannies". One last analogy : Plain TeX is to assembly language as LaTeX is to Cobol. That probably sums it up, although the assembly language is far closer to Macro-32 in its expressiveness than it is to more primitive assembly languages. Philip Taylor From wes at hef.ru.nl Wed Oct 28 12:28:44 2009 From: wes at hef.ru.nl (W.J. Metzger) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 12:28:44 +0100 (CET) Subject: [texhax] best way to revise a large existing text In-Reply-To: <4AE730F0.9050901@cam.ac.uk> References: <20090922134130.GA13574@lapse.rw.madduck.net> <200909221500.n8MF0pPC018794@bilbo.localnet> <20091023101618.GA4238@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net> <4AE5C749.5030905@cam.ac.uk> <4AE730F0.9050901@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: Dear Frederik, This is what I get too for latexdiff pap7.tex pap7.tex > pap7-diff.tex But did you try it removing line 635? That is the line %%%%%%%% } ADDING THIS LINE PREVENTS segmentation fault in latexdiff If I remove that line I get the segmentation fault. Cheers, Wes On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Frederik Tilmann wrote: > Dear Wes, > > I can't reproduce the error: see the following transcript. > >> ~/tmp 56> latexdiff pap7.tex pap7.tex > pap7-diff.tex >> >> WARNING: Inconsistency in length of input string and parsed string: >> This often indicates faulty or non-standard latex code. >> In many cases you can ignore this and the following warning messages. >> Note that character numbers in the following are counted beginning after >> \begin{document} and are only approximate.DEBUG Original length 109535 >> Parsed length 109533 >> >> in terms of $Q$ the \taumodel\ provides a good description, much bette >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Missing characters near word 7149 character index: 101911-101922 Length: 9 >> Match: |provides | (expected match marked above). >> >> WARNING: Inconsistency in length of input string and parsed string: >> This often indicates faulty or non-standard latex code. >> In many cases you can ignore this and the following warning messages. >> Note that character numbers in the following are counted beginning after >> \begin{document} and are only approximate.DEBUG Original length 109535 >> Parsed length 109533 >> >> in terms of $Q$ the \taumodel\ provides a good description, much bette >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Missing characters near word 7149 character index: 101911-101922 Length: 9 >> Match: |provides | (expected match marked above). >> ~/tmp 57> latexdiff --version >> This is LATEXDIFF 0.5 (Algorithm::Diff 1.15 so) >> (c) 2004-2007 F J Tilmann >> ~/tmp 58> perl --version >> >> This is perl, v5.10.0 built for i386-linux-thread-multi >> >> Copyright 1987-2007, Larry Wall >> >> Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or >> the >> GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. >> >> Complete documentation for Perl, including FAQ lists, should be found on >> this system using "man perl" or "perldoc perl". If you have access to the >> Internet, point your browser at http://www.perl.org/, the Perl Home Page. >> > > pap7-diff.tex seems to contain reasonable output. Only change to pap7.tex is > that some newlines get removed. (particularly before comments, or where there > are multiple newlines) > > It is not the perl version either; I ran the same sequence on another > machine, which has perlv5.8.0, and get the same output as above. Also get > the same result with latexdiff-so 0.5, and latexdiff-fast 0.42. > > If anyone else is reading this thread, can someone else reproduce? > > Your other reported bug (ignores "\ " is a real shortcoming leading to the > warnings and I will try to address this in the next version). > > Frederik > > > > > > > On 27/10/09 16:20, W.J. Metzger wrote: >> On Mon, 26 Oct 2009, Frederik Tilmann wrote: >> >>> Dear Wes >>> >>> I have never had any reports of segfaults, and I know some people have >>> used >>> it on their PhD thesis, so length should not really be an issue. It >>> should >>> really bail with a Perl error if there was anything wrong with the >>> latexdiff >>> code. >>> What's your system and perl version? Did you try latexdiff-fast, which >>> might >>> be more robust if there is a memory problem with perl? >>> >>> Frederik >> >> Dear Frederik, >> >> I run on Scientific Linux 5.3, which is a clone of Red Hat Enterprise 5. >> The perl version is v5.8.8 built for i386-linux-thread-multi >> latexdiff latexdiff-fast and latexdiff-so all gave the segmentation fault. >> >> I tried doing it also on another machine with a slightly older version of >> perl v5.8.5, but with twice the memory. It also gave the segmentation >> fault. >> >> I've played around with the tex file and found that the segmentation fault >> could be avoided by adding a comment line -- line 635 of the attached file. >> If that line is removed, I get the segmentation fault. >> >> The segmentation fault occurs very quickly, almost immediately. So I think >> that latexdiff has not started looking for the differences yet. >> >> I thought that the problem might be misinterpreting a { that was in a >> comment, since adding a comment with a } got rid of the segmentation fault. >> I attempted to isolate the problem in a small test file, containing only >> the \begin{figure} - \end{figure} in which line 635 occurs. But I did not >> get a segmentation fault with or without line 635. >> So the problem is more complicated than just the { in a comment. >> >> >> Another problem, but only a slightly annoying one, is an apparent >> misparsing of a line ending in a \ >> e.g. >> use \ell\ >> rather than l to avoid confusion with 1 >> Apparently the blank after \ell\ is not seen and results in warning >> messages. >> >> Further, differences in equations sometimes lead to incorrect mathmode in >> the difference file resulting in latex needing to insert a $. >> >> All in all, latexdiff seems to work well for text, but has some problems >> when things get complicated. >> >> >>> W.J. Metzger wrote: >>>> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009, martin f. krafft wrote: >>>> >>>>> also sprach Boris Veytsman [2009.09.22.1700 +0200]: >>>>>> Try latexdiff, http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/latexdiff/ >>>>> >>>>> That was a marvelous suggestion. Thanks. >>>> >>>> It sounded good to me too. So I downloaded it and tried it -- works fine >>>> on small tex files, but when I tried it on 'real' files it results in a >>>> segmentation fault. Do others also have this experience? >> >> Cheers, Wes >> -- >> >> Dr. W. J. Metzger Experimental High Energy Physics Group >> tel. +31-24-3653127 Faculty of Science >> +31-24-3652099 (secr.) Radboud University Nijmegen >> fax. +31-24-3652191 Heyendaalseweg 135 >> 6525 AJ Nijmegen, The Netherlands >> e-mail: wes at hef.ru.nl or Wesley.Metzger at cern.ch >> http://home.cern.ch/metzger/ or http://www.hef.ru.nl/~wes > > > -- > Frederik Tilmann > Bullard Laboratories Tel. +44 1223 765545 > Department of Earth Sciences Fax. +44 1223 360779 > University of Cambridge email: tilmann at esc.cam.ac.uk > Madingley Road http://bullard.esc.cam.ac.uk/~tilmann > Cambridge CB3 0EZ > UK > From barr at math.mcgill.ca Wed Oct 28 12:54:35 2009 From: barr at math.mcgill.ca (Michael Barr) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 06:54:35 -0500 (EST) Subject: [texhax] Plain vs. Latex Message-ID: I would like to add my 2c to what Pierre MacKay and others have said. Let me begin by pointing out that nearly all of plain can also be used in latex. There are exceptions, but not many and mostly not important and you can always add them to your own file of macros. This is not true of amslatex, incidentally, which has gone to a lot of trouble to make it quite difficult, although not impossible, to use plain macros. I don't understand their philosophy, but then that was why I quit the organization 40 years ago. If you look at my papers, they are nominally latex (and indeed the journal I do the tex editing for accepts on latex), but you see plenty of what is obviously plain tex in them. For example, I detest the \newcommand/\renewcommand idea and never use anything but \def and \let (the latter doesn't even exist in latex) and latex never complains. I generally avoid using \begin{xxx} and \end{xxx} pairs, although sometimes the replacement \xxx, \endxxx don't work the same and I have never understood why. I hate the multiply nested braces that latex recommends (but doesn't enforce) and use braces only when necessary. My diagram macros (and indeed the xy-pic they are based on) run fine in both plain and latex. Although it would probably be possible to program them in orthodox latex, it would be much harder and why bother? Someone was asking about a package to do memorandums in latex when he had a macro package in plain tex that worked. Not one respondent thought to suggest that he try to just include the plain package--it would likely work fine. Sometimes, I get criticized in my postings because I use \def in latex or do some other non-orthodox thing. As though latex were a religion, not a tool. There are certainly things that latex does well. Things like setting up the first page of a paper are easy in latex. Font handling, once you get past the woeful documentation is much easier and I use nothing else. Things like lists are well-done and I use them. Incidentally, I have always made sure I keep a copy of Lamport's original latex package as it provides an awful lot of useful documentation that latex 2e, for all its advantages, does not provide. Latex 2e has a priesthood and woe betide someone who wants to figure it out for himself. (Okay, I exaggerate.) Incidentally, I once had a bit of correspondence with Leslie Lamport and he certainly approved of how I was mixing plain and latex. Another advantage to learning both plain and latex is that you will then get and use The TeXBook and actually learn something of the innards of tex. I have had intimations that latex 3 will go to some lengths to leave plain definitely behind. It will leave me behind too. Michael From swami at mun.ca Wed Oct 28 13:20:14 2009 From: swami at mun.ca (P. P. Narayanaswami) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:50:14 -0230 Subject: [texhax] texmf.cnf problem for DevanagariTeX in Ubuntu904/Texlive Message-ID: <1256732414.4ae836fea9f82@webmail.mun.ca> I use Texlive that is bundled with Ubuntu 9.04 with the texmf root directory residing at /usr/share/texmf. I wanted to install DevanagariTeX2.15, whose filesystem confirms to TDS. The instruction that comes with the README file is is to edit the texmf.cnf file (in web2c directory) and modify the TEXMF variable. Insert the line DEVNAG = /path/to/velthuis and then modify the TEXMF definition as: TEXMF = {!!$DEVNAG,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN} Rebuild the file database. When I do exactly as above, nothing happens and kpathsea library is not finding the files. On looking at the texmf.cnf file in /texmf/web2c, I find the following precautions at the very beginning of the file: % This file is automatically generated by update-texmf % PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY. It is meant to be generated from % files in /etc/texmf/texmf.d/. % While changes made by users will not be overwritten, they will cause % you trouble. You will be shown the differences between the edited and % the newly created file. We will try to merge our and your changes, but % that might not always work, and you will probably have to edit again. % Therefore, if you want a smooth upgrade, please edit the files % in /etc/texmf/texmf.d, % or create an additional one (with the extension '.cnf'), % and invoke update-texmf. What does this mean? Am I not allowed to edit and change the texmf.cnf file, and in that case, how can I accomplish the changes need to install DevanagariTeX? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. From will.adams at frycomm.com Wed Oct 28 14:09:00 2009 From: will.adams at frycomm.com (William Adams) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:09:00 -0400 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> Message-ID: <776F7EE6-1736-4D0B-95DE-3FC6652B7A7B@frycomm.com> TeX is what LaTeX2e and earlier versions are written in. Quite often, if one gets beyond what can be done by just loading a package, one will need to program in TeX, and there are a number of parts of LaTeX where one has to use Plain TeX constructs 'cause LaTeX constructs are dis-allowed (the picture environment comes to mind). LaTeX offers a richer, more consistent programming environment, but the rules on when one needs to use Plain TeX constructs aren't clearly defined, and I've not been able to discern any consistency beyond when stuff stops working. Using LaTeX allows one access to LaTeX packages and it's rare to have a problem which hasn't been anticipated and solved by a package. I've done lots of books where all that I had to do to match the designer's book format was load the appropriate packages and set their options correctly. If one uses Plain TeX one has to ``roll one's own''. Here's an excellent post by David Kastrup which discusses this in a wider context: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.text.tex/msg/9f804f7b5cfabc25?dmode=source William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. From hh-brasil at bol.com.br Wed Oct 28 14:23:54 2009 From: hh-brasil at bol.com.br (hh) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 11:23:54 -0200 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AE829CA.14627.FB2788@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> It is my (strictly personal) impression, that the general use of LaTeX also includes the loss of knowledge how things are done in plain TeX. Many times people look for a package when in reality they would just need one macro (of a limited number of lines). But they are (often) not able to extract the macro from a package because that most times implies some knowledge of plain TeX. hh > > However, I believe that if you use, as a absolute beginner, LaTeX you > might > loose some of the fine grains of TeX but it also takes a lot of burdens > away > from you. Mostly things a beginner can even not answer if you point him to > the > fact. From crebecca at uchicago.edu Wed Oct 28 15:09:19 2009 From: crebecca at uchicago.edu (crebecca at uchicago.edu) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 09:09:19 -0500 (CDT) Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <4AE80740.8000804@Rhul.Ac.Uk> References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> <4AE80740.8000804@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Message-ID: <20091028090919.BUW55056@m4500-03.uchicago.edu> You can't read your way through this decision; you have to try something out. Where you begin may depend on your background: programming/mathematics versus WYSIWYG. But either way, you'll need to practice on something that eventually makes the TeX/LaTeX distinctions concrete. If you can't complete a project at all, then neither TeX nor LaTeX is helpful. So find a project. At some point you'll need something from the dark side (LaTeX, or TeX, depending). I've started with LaTeX, and now want to modify macros, but can't yet decipher the underlying TeX commands in the documentation. I always find LaTeX documentation clear until I read the commands underlying the LaTeX macros. But it's fine; my project will get done. Web-based support for LaTeX is remarkably good, as are the standard books. Knuth himself is one of the clearest explainers of his own work - he deserves more recognition in book history circles than he's getting right now. Whatever you do, read the TeXbook while you do it. Rebecca ---- Original message ---- >Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 08:56:32 +0000 >From: Philip TAYLOR >Subject: Re: [texhax] learning tex vs latex >To: bill lam >Cc: texhax > >Dear Bill -- > >> I'm unfamiliar with both tex and latex. Should my time better spent on >> learning tex or latex? Presumably learning curve of tex is even more >> steeper than that of latex, but I saw some forum members said they use >> plain tex. I would like to know before deciding, >> >> 1. Do common packages such as supertabular and cjk work on tex? > >Almost certainly not. When one speaks of a package (in this >context), one is almost invariably speaking of a LaTeX package. > >> 2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that >> true? > >LaTeX is being actively developed by the LaTeX 3 team >(Frank Mittelbach, Chris Rowley and many others); TeX >itself is frozen, but variants continue to emerge >(eTeX, PdfTeX, LuaTeX, XeTeX, ...). However, this is >like comparing chalk and cheese : the real question is >"are new packages for Plain TeX being developed", to >which the answer is almost certainly "no" (even I, who >work almost entirely in Plain TeX, do not write "packages" >in the strict sense of the word (well, not any more); >rather, I develop solutions to whatever problems I currently >face, and then (sometimes) present those solutions at >conferences). > >> 3. What will be the advantage of plain tex over latex? > >There are a number of advantages, and some disadvantages. > >Advantages : > >1) You get to understand how TeX works, at a really deep level. > >2) You have the freedom to express your ideas exactly as you > choose -- if you don't like the "backslash and brace" > convention, you can design/implement/use another (say, > an SGML/XML-like syntax, for example) > >3) You are in complete control : if something doesn't work > (or doesn't work as you would wish it), you can fix it > (or at least try to fix it !). > >4) You are forced to THINK. LaTeX tries to spoon-feed you > canned solutions; with Plain TeX, there are no canned > solutions -- everything you want to eat, you have to > hunt, shoot, butcher and cook for yourself (or forage, > gather and cook, if you happen to be a vegetarian). > > >Disadvantages : > >1) You cut yourself off from the incredibly wide range of > LaTeX packages that have already been written. Even I, > who am a died-in-the-wool Plain TeX aficionado, have been > extremely impressed with the range and quality of these > packages, which can -- used intelligently -- much simplify > the more routine typesetting tasks. > >2) You need document design skills. Although it could hardly > be claimed that out-of-the-box LaTeX output is beautiful, > it does at least heed the more important design considerations. > > >I was surprised when I got this far that I could find only two >disadvantages to the use of Plain TeX; I had genuinely thought >that the number of advantages and disadvantages would be of >the same order of magnitude. Perhaps my problem is that >I continue to see Plain TeX through rose-coloured glasses, >although I have recently come to accept that IF (big IF) >I am prepared to work within the LaTeX framework, there is >a large corpus of extant material on which I can call. >Unfortunately I always think of LaTeX as a nanny-like figure >who takes great care to protect little Johnny from all the >nasty things that lurk in the grown-ups' world of Real TeX [tm], >but who as an unfortunate side-effect stultifies his powers >of expression, and forces him to think like "all the other >nice little boys and girls that listen to their nannies". > >One last analogy : Plain TeX is to assembly language as >LaTeX is to Cobol. That probably sums it up, although >the assembly language is far closer to Macro-32 in its >expressiveness than it is to more primitive assembly languages. > >Philip Taylor > >_______________________________________________ >TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq >Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ >More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > >Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax >Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org -------------------------- Rebecca Chung crebecca at uchicago.edu if you receive this message in error, please notify crebecca at uchicago.edu and support at uchicago.edu From bnb at ams.org Wed Oct 28 15:21:07 2009 From: bnb at ams.org (Barbara Beeton) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:21:07 -0400 (EDT) Subject: [texhax] Plain vs. Latex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: michael barr writes, I would like to add my 2c to what Pierre MacKay and others have said. Let me begin by pointing out that nearly all of plain can also be used in latex. There are exceptions, but not many and mostly not important and you can always add them to your own file of macros. This is not true of amslatex, incidentally, which has gone to a lot of trouble to make it quite difficult, although not impossible, to use plain macros. I don't understand their philosophy, but then that was why I quit the organization 40 years ago. although i personally prefer plain tex, at least partially because i learned it first, there compelling reasons for the adoption of latex by ams. this is a production shop, publishing many thousands of journal pages a year. in order to make this a successful enterprise, uniformity is needed, and the ability to process as much as possible with as little human intervention as possible. the philosophy is that human effort is best spent on ensuring the mathematical accuracy and intelligibility of content as opposed to fine-tuning idiosyncratic macros submitted by authors. the latex packages spoken of provide the necessary uniformity while enabling generation of identical versions in both print and electronic form, the latter with full hyperlinking provided by hyperref. with books, more flexibility is possible, and authors can submit their files using ams-tex (a structured interface to tex more closely aligned to plain tex) or latex, or even plain tex, preferably using an author package that provides the "look" of the particular series in which the book is to appear. as the person who has the duty of answering tex-related questions for authors, i definitely appreciate it when authors follow our guidelines. we do receive a number of books that have been written to some latex document class other than one from ams, and it usually requires many hours of technical effort to adapt these styles to the local requirements, which include such basic things as making sure the text block fits in the specified margins so printed material isn't either cut off at the outside trim or made unreadable in the binding gutter. (the number of authors who modify the page size to fill a sheet of letter paper is truly staggering; i know many authors refuse to read instructions -- they're brazen enough to say so -- but if they just looked at a copy of the journal or book series to which they're submitting their manuscript, it should be obvious that a text block that fills a letter sized sheet just won't fit withint the trim of the target publication.) more time spent by the publisher means higher cost. while it may seem shameful to push this work onto authors, it's a fact that an author understands the material better than any editorial person or texnician, so a careful and responsible author can help to ensure both a valuable document and an affordable price. the bottom line for the person who originally asked is, choose plain tex or latex as you find you prefer, but if you're submitting a manuscript for publication, please read what the publisher recommends and follow these instructions. -- bb From barr at math.mcgill.ca Wed Oct 28 16:19:44 2009 From: barr at math.mcgill.ca (Michael Barr) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 10:19:44 -0500 (EST) Subject: [texhax] Plain vs. Latex In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: I don't disagree with what you write. As I said, the journal I help edit uses latex excusively--in fact latex 2e. Where I part company is with people who criticize me for not using "pure" latex. My gripe with the AMS is that they disable standard tex things to no particular purpose. I have a book that was published in an AMS series (the Centre de Recherche de Montreal series, to be exact). When I wrote it I had no particular publisher in mind and I made extensive use of the plain \matrix macro. I was familiar with it and it was easy to use. When it was accepted by the CRM, I tried putting it in amslatex. I had no gripe with the style specs (well one, I had used \raggedright, which the AMS wouldn't accept--ok, it that's they way they are, I can live with it. But the \matrix macro, which I included since it is not in latex, just caused an error message. Eventually I was able to get amslatex to accept it. But I certainly wasn't going to redo 224 matrices just because someone at the AMS decided that Knuth's macros weren't good enough. It is that attitude, "My way or the highway" that I am objecting to. Michael On Wed, 28 Oct 2009, Barbara Beeton wrote: > michael barr writes, > > I would like to add my 2c to what Pierre MacKay and others have said. Let me > begin by pointing out that nearly all of plain can also be used in latex. > There are exceptions, but not many and mostly not important and you can > always add them to your own file of macros. This is not true of amslatex, > incidentally, which has gone to a lot of trouble to make it quite difficult, > although not impossible, to use plain macros. I don't understand their > philosophy, but then that was why I quit the organization 40 years ago. > > although i personally prefer plain tex, > at least partially because i learned it > first, there compelling reasons for the > adoption of latex by ams. this is a > production shop, publishing many thousands > of journal pages a year. in order to > make this a successful enterprise, > uniformity is needed, and the ability > to process as much as possible with as > little human intervention as possible. > > the philosophy is that human effort is > best spent on ensuring the mathematical > accuracy and intelligibility of content > as opposed to fine-tuning idiosyncratic > macros submitted by authors. the latex > packages spoken of provide the necessary > uniformity while enabling generation of > identical versions in both print and > electronic form, the latter with full > hyperlinking provided by hyperref. > > with books, more flexibility is possible, > and authors can submit their files using > ams-tex (a structured interface to tex > more closely aligned to plain tex) or > latex, or even plain tex, preferably > using an author package that provides > the "look" of the particular series in > which the book is to appear. as the > person who has the duty of answering > tex-related questions for authors, i > definitely appreciate it when authors > follow our guidelines. we do receive > a number of books that have been written > to some latex document class other than > one from ams, and it usually requires > many hours of technical effort to adapt > these styles to the local requirements, > which include such basic things as > making sure the text block fits in the > specified margins so printed material > isn't either cut off at the outside > trim or made unreadable in the binding > gutter. (the number of authors who > modify the page size to fill a sheet > of letter paper is truly staggering; > i know many authors refuse to read > instructions -- they're brazen enough > to say so -- but if they just looked > at a copy of the journal or book > series to which they're submitting > their manuscript, it should be obvious > that a text block that fills a letter > sized sheet just won't fit withint > the trim of the target publication.) > > more time spent by the publisher means > higher cost. while it may seem shameful > to push this work onto authors, it's a > fact that an author understands the > material better than any editorial > person or texnician, so a careful and > responsible author can help to ensure > both a valuable document and an > affordable price. > > the bottom line for the person who originally > asked is, choose plain tex or latex as you > find you prefer, but if you're submitting > a manuscript for publication, please read > what the publisher recommends and follow > these instructions. > -- bb > From uwe.lueck at web.de Wed Oct 28 16:47:20 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:47:20 +0100 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <4AE7D83F.9030806@comcast.net> References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091028155222.0286d060@pop3.web.de> At 03:03 28.10.09, bill lam wrote: >I'm unfamiliar with both tex and latex. Should my time better spent on >learning tex or latex? Presumably learning curve of tex is even more >steeper than that of latex, but I saw some forum members said they use >plain tex. I would like to know before deciding, > >1. Do common packages such as supertabular and cjk work on tex? >2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that > true? >3. What will be the advantage of plain tex over latex? LaTeX is a script-like user interface to the binary TeX program, i.e., Knuth's versions up to TeX3, or extensions of the latter, most notably: e-TeX, pdfTeX, XeTeX. Plain TeX is kind of an alternative user interface to TeX, but with a few exceptions, it is just a part of LaTeX. ... "in a silent way", however: plain TeX code is present in the LaTeX source latex.ltx, but usual LaTeX documentation doesn't mention it. Plain TeX and LaTeX are called "formats". When you are writing `tex', it is not quite clear whether you are referring to the binary or to the format Plain TeX. This confusion seems to lurk in other postings. Books like The TeXbook or TeX for the Impatient describe the binary engine as well as the Plain TeX format, both is missing in usual LaTeX documentation. If you start learning TeX from the TeXbook or so, you will need quite a while until you can typeset a paper or a thesis. If you start with some small LaTeX introduction, you can typeset a paper or thesis almost immediately. At least you get a proper looking output for mere text soon. You can typeset one or a few pages of an introduction for your first work within a few days. While you are proceeding and want to add some more special features, you can go on reading extra documentation, each bit just for the next task. This is the basic idea of LaTeX! Get something proper without learning much! >3. What will be the advantage of plain tex over latex? After a while, you may observe behaviour of LaTeX that seems strange to you. LaTeX moreover, gives very limited access to the features of the TeX engine. This is just due to the effiency idea of LaTeX. When most urgent things have been done and you can afford spending some time learning about what is behind LaTeX and what TeX really offers, you may buy a book like The TeXbook. This may help you in understanding difficulties with LaTeX, why you need some extra packages for certain fine tuning, you may then mix Plain TeX code into your LaTeX code for fine tuning, you can write your own LaTeX packages getting more control of TeX ... >1. Do common packages such as supertabular and cjk work on tex? They work when you use the TeX engine with the LaTeX format. They usually don't with Plain TeX only (running the TeX engine). miniltx.tex can extend Plain TeX so some more packages that usually are "LaTeX" packages can be used. >2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that true? At 06:35 28.10.09, Pierre MacKay wrote: >It is nonsense to speak of LaTeX as developing, while TeX is not. LaTeX >is a macro package built on top of TeX. It can not "develop" in the sense >of altering the basic engine, because Donald Knuth has taken great care to >ensure archival compatibility for all input files that ever ran in TeX3. Well, some call obvious truths "nonsense", maybe thinking `don't waste your time with saying things that everybody knows' (not saying this outright instead of just thinking, probably they consider it too obvious to waste their time with also saying it). Knuth's TeX3 engine does not develop anymore, due to Knuth's decision. At 06:35 28.10.09, Pierre MacKay wrote: >If a package requires something that cannot be run in the basic TeX3 >engine, it may not be called TeX. What may not be called TeX? I mentioned extensions of TeX like e-TeX, pdfTeX, XeTeX. There are LaTeX packages that require running such an extension of the TeX program. Their development may not have stopped as definitely as TeX's, but this point is quite irrelevant. >2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that true? Considering the confusion of `TeX' with `plain TeX', a point in saying this is that many people work on improving LaTeX by either improving the standard macros or by writing own LaTeX packages for new features, and by improving their own packages. There seems to be almost no development of Plain TeX in this sense. However, I tend to say it is "nonsense" to consider this point, or it is irrelevant. At least, it is not a reason not to learn Plain TeX when you master LaTeX. In order to improve LaTeX or use of some TeX binary engine, you must understand Plain TeX, the TeX engine, considerable parts of the TeXbook, even if it is "not actively developing" in some sense. At 06:35 28.10.09, Pierre MacKay wrote: >My basic problem with LaTeX is that it has a genius for making simple >things complex, and does so at every possible instance. [...] >The fine tuning that is possible in a macro package based on plain TeX may >be possible in LaTeX, but LaTeX, for its own protection, shuts off many >avenues for such fine tuning, or at best, disguises them so thoroughly >that you will have real difficulty discovering how to walk down them. > >The model for LaTeX has become the "black box", all too like Microsoft. > >If you are satisfied with LaTeX formating, you should probably go with >it. I think it is often slovenly, and though I am assured that, since >LaTeX is ultimately built on top of plain TeX, it would be possible to get >rid of the slovenliness, I have never thought that I had the time to put >into that. > >Finally, the advantage of plain.tex over LaTeX is that you remain in >control. With LaTeX, you are left in a position that is far too like what >Microsoft Word offers you: "We know better than you do what you >want"---again with the important proviso that you are always free to read >all the source macros of LaTeX, but that is never the case for the source >code of Word. I agree, but still learning using the TeX engine should start with LaTeX; later a user may learn about TeX and Plain TeX. I have never heard that when a TeX user starts learning LaTeX, she must swear never to touch the TeXbook. Cheers, Uwe. From Susan.Dittmar at gmx.de Wed Oct 28 17:26:24 2009 From: Susan.Dittmar at gmx.de (Susan Dittmar) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:26:24 +0100 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <4AE829CA.14627.FB2788@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> References: <4AE829CA.14627.FB2788@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> Message-ID: <20091028162624.GC27063@eureca.de> Quoting hh (hh-brasil at bol.com.br): > It is my (strictly personal) impression, that the general use of > LaTeX also includes the loss of knowledge how things are done in > plain TeX. True. But I do not know much of my car and drive it nonetheless. I would not be able to build an oven or a washing machine, and use them still. OK, once they fail, I need help. But they help me greatly even without me knowing each of their parts by heart. I am a long time user of LaTeX and use it intensely for a lot of quite different things. And the approach of "try with LaTeX, but keep an open eye for plain TeX solutions" works quite well for me. I do not see much sense in re-inventing the wheel. Mind, I am glad there are people who understand those things in detail. The machines, and LaTeX, would not exist without such people. I am grateful for all their expertise. I just think that you do not *need* to understand all the details if you just need to use the machine. And the machine called LaTeX still offers a lot of flexibility, so I think most users never really collide with LaTeX's restrictions. Susan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Wed Oct 28 18:09:28 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 17:09:28 +0000 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <20091028162624.GC27063@eureca.de> References: <4AE829CA.14627.FB2788@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091028162624.GC27063@eureca.de> Message-ID: <4AE87AC8.10909@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Susan Dittmar wrote: > But I do not know much of my car and drive it nonetheless. [...] > I just think that you do not *need* to understand all the details > if you just need to use the machine. Well, at the risk of getting slightly off-topic, I fear that here we must differ. Whilst I accept that it is not essential to know exactly how every last component in your car (or mine) was constructed, and exactly how it functions, if you (or I) do not understand the torque characteristics of our engine, or understand why there is both a lower bound and an upper bound on the rotational speed of the engine, and why there are different values for these depending on engine loading, if we do not understand under-steer and over-steer, and why one tries to accelerate out of corners, then can we ever really drive /properly/, with all the concomitant benefits that proper driving brings (extended engine life, extended drive-train life, extended tyre life, decreased running costs, increased safety, and so on) ? I think the same holds true for TeX : yes, (almost) anyone can use LaTeX, but to use LaTeX /properly/, and to get maximum benefit from it, one does need to know what is taking place inside (that is, in the underlying TeX typesetting engine). No, it won't last any longer, and in general a crash won't be fatal, but if you /do/ know what's taking place inside, you stand a better chance of being able to do at least a little of your own maintenance and tuning, when things aren't behaving quite as you might wish. Philip Taylor From c.a.rowley at open.ac.uk Wed Oct 28 23:57:43 2009 From: c.a.rowley at open.ac.uk (c.a.rowley at open.ac.uk) Date: Wed, 28 Oct 2009 22:57:43 +0000 Subject: [texhax] tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091028155222.0286d060@pop3.web.de> References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> , <5.1.0.14.0.20091028155222.0286d060@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: Pierre! At 06:35 28.10.09, Pierre MacKay wrote: >It is nonsense to speak of LaTeX as developing, while TeX is not. ?LaTeX >is a macro package built on top of TeX. ?It can not "develop" in the sense >of altering the basic engine, because Donald Knuth has taken great care to >ensure archival compatibility for all input files that ever ran in TeX3. But that basic monolithic engine and its carefully constructed collection of beautiful but bizarre basic assumptions, limitations, overloadings, quasi-optimisations (need I go on?) has been precisiely the stimulus for major LaTeX kernel developments (and maybe some packages too) over the deacdes. These have been developed precisely to remove or work-around primitive (in the TeXnical sense) many of TeX's severe limitaions and quirks. Leslie started this process of removing Knuth's more whacky ideas from ever being used by good LaTeX code and some recent experimental stuff devloped by my colleagues turns off a very large percentage of the algorithms and code in TeX: The Program (to pursue the car-driving analaogy far too far, that's the book for the materials engineers which of course provides masses of useful information about why certain cars have the steering characteristics that are so essential to Phil's driving techniques). Thus it is no wonder that us ageing boy-racers who think of themselves as innovative engineers and Formula One studs do not like LaTeX. If I could be bothered to look them up I would refer to Leslie's car metaphor's from 25 or so years ago. But I shall simply note that, for cars (at least in Europe), those decades have seen enormous changes: from the most fundamental engineering at the materials science level to the software and sesnsors at the virtual control level and at all levels in between but most importantly the influence of quality and safety engineering. All these have led me to have no need at all to understand anything at all about how the car sticks to the road, what speed it does, whether the torque is coirrect, whether the lights are on, etc. etc. Unfortunately I still need to point it in the roughly the rioght direction:-). Oh, I almost got too distracted: my question/lament is: Why have the fundamental processes of automated document processing at most levels progressed not at all during that same period? (I exclude font technologies from this indictment.) Have fun, chris --------------------------------------------------------------------------- The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter (RC 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a charity registered in Scotland (SC 038302) From brandon at 301south.net Thu Oct 29 10:06:37 2009 From: brandon at 301south.net (Brandon Kuczenski) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 02:06:37 -0700 (PDT) Subject: [texhax] Sans serif axis labels in \psaxes? Message-ID: Hey all, \usepackage{pstricks-add} I'm having trouble setting my \psaxes labels in sans serif fonts. What is the best way to do this? Thanks, -Brandon From Herbert.Voss at FU-Berlin.DE Thu Oct 29 10:25:57 2009 From: Herbert.Voss at FU-Berlin.DE (Herbert Voss) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 10:25:57 +0100 Subject: [texhax] Sans serif axis labels in \psaxes? In-Reply-To: References: Message-ID: <4AE95FA5.80001@FU-Berlin.DE> Brandon Kuczenski schrieb: > \usepackage{pstricks-add} > > I'm having trouble setting my \psaxes labels in sans serif fonts. What > is the best way to do this? \documentclass[a4paper]{article} \usepackage{pstricks-add} \begin{document} \begin{pspicture}(-0.25,-0.25)(5,2.25) \psaxes[mathLabel=false,labelFontSize=\sffamily]{->}(5,2.25) \end{pspicture} \end{document} Herbert From wes at hef.ru.nl Tue Oct 27 17:20:09 2009 From: wes at hef.ru.nl (W.J. Metzger) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:20:09 +0100 (CET) Subject: [texhax] best way to revise a large existing text In-Reply-To: <4AE5C749.5030905@cam.ac.uk> References: <20090922134130.GA13574@lapse.rw.madduck.net> <200909221500.n8MF0pPC018794@bilbo.localnet> <20091023101618.GA4238@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net> <4AE5C749.5030905@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: On Mon, 26 Oct 2009, Frederik Tilmann wrote: > Dear Wes > > I have never had any reports of segfaults, and I know some people have used > it on their PhD thesis, so length should not really be an issue. It should > really bail with a Perl error if there was anything wrong with the latexdiff > code. > What's your system and perl version? Did you try latexdiff-fast, which might > be more robust if there is a memory problem with perl? > > Frederik Dear Frederik, I run on Scientific Linux 5.3, which is a clone of Red Hat Enterprise 5. The perl version is v5.8.8 built for i386-linux-thread-multi latexdiff latexdiff-fast and latexdiff-so all gave the segmentation fault. I tried doing it also on another machine with a slightly older version of perl v5.8.5, but with twice the memory. It also gave the segmentation fault. I've played around with the tex file and found that the segmentation fault could be avoided by adding a comment line -- line 635 of the attached file. If that line is removed, I get the segmentation fault. The segmentation fault occurs very quickly, almost immediately. So I think that latexdiff has not started looking for the differences yet. I thought that the problem might be misinterpreting a { that was in a comment, since adding a comment with a } got rid of the segmentation fault. I attempted to isolate the problem in a small test file, containing only the \begin{figure} - \end{figure} in which line 635 occurs. But I did not get a segmentation fault with or without line 635. So the problem is more complicated than just the { in a comment. Another problem, but only a slightly annoying one, is an apparent misparsing of a line ending in a \ e.g. use \ell\ rather than l to avoid confusion with 1 Apparently the blank after \ell\ is not seen and results in warning messages. Further, differences in equations sometimes lead to incorrect mathmode in the difference file resulting in latex needing to insert a $. All in all, latexdiff seems to work well for text, but has some problems when things get complicated. > W.J. Metzger wrote: >> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009, martin f. krafft wrote: >> >>> also sprach Boris Veytsman [2009.09.22.1700 +0200]: >>>> Try latexdiff, http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/latexdiff/ >>> >>> That was a marvelous suggestion. Thanks. >> >> It sounded good to me too. So I downloaded it and tried it -- works fine >> on small tex files, but when I tried it on 'real' files it results in a >> segmentation fault. Do others also have this experience? Cheers, Wes -- Dr. W. J. Metzger Experimental High Energy Physics Group tel. +31-24-3653127 Faculty of Science +31-24-3652099 (secr.) Radboud University Nijmegen fax. +31-24-3652191 Heyendaalseweg 135 6525 AJ Nijmegen, The Netherlands e-mail: wes at hef.ru.nl or Wesley.Metzger at cern.ch http://home.cern.ch/metzger/ or http://www.hef.ru.nl/~wes -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: pap7.tex Type: application/x-tex Size: 114431 bytes Desc: URL: From fjt21 at cam.ac.uk Tue Oct 27 18:42:08 2009 From: fjt21 at cam.ac.uk (Frederik Tilmann) Date: Tue, 27 Oct 2009 17:42:08 +0000 Subject: [texhax] best way to revise a large existing text In-Reply-To: References: <20090922134130.GA13574@lapse.rw.madduck.net> <200909221500.n8MF0pPC018794@bilbo.localnet> <20091023101618.GA4238@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net> <4AE5C749.5030905@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: <4AE730F0.9050901@cam.ac.uk> Dear Wes, I can't reproduce the error: see the following transcript. > ~/tmp 56> latexdiff pap7.tex pap7.tex > pap7-diff.tex > > WARNING: Inconsistency in length of input string and parsed string: > This often indicates faulty or non-standard latex code. > In many cases you can ignore this and the following warning messages. > Note that character numbers in the following are counted beginning after \begin{document} and are only approximate.DEBUG Original length 109535 Parsed length 109533 > > in terms of $Q$ the \taumodel\ provides a good description, much bette > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > Missing characters near word 7149 character index: 101911-101922 Length: 9 Match: |provides | (expected match marked above). > > WARNING: Inconsistency in length of input string and parsed string: > This often indicates faulty or non-standard latex code. > In many cases you can ignore this and the following warning messages. > Note that character numbers in the following are counted beginning after \begin{document} and are only approximate.DEBUG Original length 109535 Parsed length 109533 > > in terms of $Q$ the \taumodel\ provides a good description, much bette > ^^^^^^^^^^^ > Missing characters near word 7149 character index: 101911-101922 Length: 9 Match: |provides | (expected match marked above). > ~/tmp 57> latexdiff --version > This is LATEXDIFF 0.5 (Algorithm::Diff 1.15 so) > (c) 2004-2007 F J Tilmann > ~/tmp 58> perl --version > > This is perl, v5.10.0 built for i386-linux-thread-multi > > Copyright 1987-2007, Larry Wall > > Perl may be copied only under the terms of either the Artistic License or the > GNU General Public License, which may be found in the Perl 5 source kit. > > Complete documentation for Perl, including FAQ lists, should be found on > this system using "man perl" or "perldoc perl". If you have access to the > Internet, point your browser at http://www.perl.org/, the Perl Home Page. > pap7-diff.tex seems to contain reasonable output. Only change to pap7.tex is that some newlines get removed. (particularly before comments, or where there are multiple newlines) It is not the perl version either; I ran the same sequence on another machine, which has perlv5.8.0, and get the same output as above. Also get the same result with latexdiff-so 0.5, and latexdiff-fast 0.42. If anyone else is reading this thread, can someone else reproduce? Your other reported bug (ignores "\ " is a real shortcoming leading to the warnings and I will try to address this in the next version). Frederik On 27/10/09 16:20, W.J. Metzger wrote: > On Mon, 26 Oct 2009, Frederik Tilmann wrote: > >> Dear Wes >> >> I have never had any reports of segfaults, and I know some people have >> used >> it on their PhD thesis, so length should not really be an issue. It >> should >> really bail with a Perl error if there was anything wrong with the >> latexdiff >> code. >> What's your system and perl version? Did you try latexdiff-fast, which >> might >> be more robust if there is a memory problem with perl? >> >> Frederik > > Dear Frederik, > > I run on Scientific Linux 5.3, which is a clone of Red Hat Enterprise 5. > The perl version is v5.8.8 built for i386-linux-thread-multi > latexdiff latexdiff-fast and latexdiff-so all gave the segmentation fault. > > I tried doing it also on another machine with a slightly older version of > perl v5.8.5, but with twice the memory. It also gave the segmentation > fault. > > I've played around with the tex file and found that the segmentation fault > could be avoided by adding a comment line -- line 635 of the attached file. > If that line is removed, I get the segmentation fault. > > The segmentation fault occurs very quickly, almost immediately. So I think > that latexdiff has not started looking for the differences yet. > > I thought that the problem might be misinterpreting a { that was in a > comment, since adding a comment with a } got rid of the segmentation fault. > I attempted to isolate the problem in a small test file, containing only > the \begin{figure} - \end{figure} in which line 635 occurs. But I did not > get a segmentation fault with or without line 635. > So the problem is more complicated than just the { in a comment. > > > Another problem, but only a slightly annoying one, is an apparent > misparsing of a line ending in a \ > e.g. > use \ell\ > rather than l to avoid confusion with 1 > Apparently the blank after \ell\ is not seen and results in warning > messages. > > Further, differences in equations sometimes lead to incorrect mathmode in > the difference file resulting in latex needing to insert a $. > > All in all, latexdiff seems to work well for text, but has some problems > when things get complicated. > > >> W.J. Metzger wrote: >>> On Fri, 23 Oct 2009, martin f. krafft wrote: >>> >>>> also sprach Boris Veytsman [2009.09.22.1700 +0200]: >>>>> Try latexdiff, http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/support/latexdiff/ >>>> >>>> That was a marvelous suggestion. Thanks. >>> >>> It sounded good to me too. So I downloaded it and tried it -- works fine >>> on small tex files, but when I tried it on 'real' files it results in a >>> segmentation fault. Do others also have this experience? > > Cheers, Wes > -- > > Dr. W. J. Metzger Experimental High Energy Physics Group > tel. +31-24-3653127 Faculty of Science > +31-24-3652099 (secr.) Radboud University Nijmegen > fax. +31-24-3652191 Heyendaalseweg 135 > 6525 AJ Nijmegen, The Netherlands > e-mail: wes at hef.ru.nl or Wesley.Metzger at cern.ch > http://home.cern.ch/metzger/ or http://www.hef.ru.nl/~wes -- Frederik Tilmann Bullard Laboratories Tel. +44 1223 765545 Department of Earth Sciences Fax. +44 1223 360779 University of Cambridge email: tilmann at esc.cam.ac.uk Madingley Road http://bullard.esc.cam.ac.uk/~tilmann Cambridge CB3 0EZ UK From zdenek.wagner at gmail.com Thu Oct 29 18:23:11 2009 From: zdenek.wagner at gmail.com (Zdenek Wagner) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:23:11 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] texmf.cnf problem for DevanagariTeX in Ubuntu904/Texlive In-Reply-To: <1256732414.4ae836fea9f82@webmail.mun.ca> References: <1256732414.4ae836fea9f82@webmail.mun.ca> Message-ID: <8719b6240910291023w6a12031fib965c3061586badc@mail.gmail.com> 2009/10/28 P. P. Narayanaswami : > I use Texlive that is bundled with Ubuntu 9.04 with the texmf root > directory residing at /usr/share/texmf. ?I wanted to install DevanagariTeX2.15, > whose filesystem confirms to TDS. ?The instruction that comes with the README > file is ?is to edit the texmf.cnf file (in web2c directory) > and modify the TEXMF variable. Insert the line > ? ?DEVNAG = /path/to/velthuis > and then modify the TEXMF definition as: > ? ?TEXMF = {!!$DEVNAG,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN} > Rebuild the file database. > The readme file was written before Velthuis Devanagari was included in TeX Live. Now you have to do it only if you wish to use the latest package from CVS. I hope that all packages have been converted to *.deb so that you should have everything. There are just some improvements concerning Vedic accents that are not yet on CTAN and thus not on TeX Live. > When I do exactly as above, nothing happens and ?kpathsea library is not finding > the files. On looking at the texmf.cnf file in /texmf/web2c, > I find the following precautions at the very beginning of the file: > > % This file is automatically generated by update-texmf > % PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY. It is meant to be generated from > % files in /etc/texmf/texmf.d/. > % While changes made by users will not be overwritten, they will cause > % you trouble. You will be shown the differences between the edited and > % the newly created file. We will try to merge our and your changes, but > % that might not always work, and you will probably have to edit again. > % Therefore, if you want a smooth upgrade, please edit the files > % in /etc/texmf/texmf.d, > % or create an additional one (with the extension '.cnf'), > % and invoke update-texmf. > > What does this mean? ?Am I not allowed to edit and change the texmf.cnf > file, and in that case, how can I accomplish the changes need to install > DevanagariTeX? ?Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. > -- Zden?k Wagner http://hroch486.icpf.cas.cz/wagner/ http://icebearsoft.euweb.cz From preining at logic.at Thu Oct 29 18:29:46 2009 From: preining at logic.at (Norbert Preining) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:29:46 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] texmf.cnf problem for DevanagariTeX in Ubuntu904/Texlive In-Reply-To: <1256732414.4ae836fea9f82@webmail.mun.ca> References: <1256732414.4ae836fea9f82@webmail.mun.ca> Message-ID: <20091029172946.GX18552@gamma.logic.tuwien.ac.at> Hi, first of all, you are reporting problems with Debian/Ubuntu TeX Live, so the tex-live list is not the perfect place. Better to use Debian/Ubuntu specific support forums. Here the development of TeX Live itself is done, not the packaging for Debian. There is a Ubuntu group, and a Debian mailing list for that. Anyway, since it is mostly me being responsible fro Debian packages, see below for comments. On Mi, 28 Okt 2009, P. P. Narayanaswami wrote: > file is is to edit the texmf.cnf file (in web2c directory) > and modify the TEXMF variable. Insert the line > DEVNAG = /path/to/velthuis > and then modify the TEXMF definition as: > TEXMF = {!!$DEVNAG,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN} > Rebuild the file database. > > When I do exactly as above, nothing happens and kpathsea library is not finding That is strange. In fact if you do that and call mktexlsr the files should be found. When you called mktexlsr did it lists that it updated the DEVNAG tree. > % This file is automatically generated by update-texmf > % PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY. It is meant to be generated from > % files in /etc/texmf/texmf.d/. > % While changes made by users will not be overwritten, they will cause > % you trouble. You will be shown the differences between the edited and > % the newly created file. We will try to merge our and your changes, but > % that might not always work, and you will probably have to edit again. > % Therefore, if you want a smooth upgrade, please edit the files > % in /etc/texmf/texmf.d, > % or create an additional one (with the extension '.cnf'), > % and invoke update-texmf. > > What does this mean? Am I not allowed to edit and change the texmf.cnf > file, and in that case, how can I accomplish the changes need to install > DevanagariTeX? Any help will be appreciated. Thanks in advance. Well that does mean what it is written!!! texmf.cnf in Debian and thus Ubuntu is managed in two steps: - first it is recreated from the files in /etc/texmf/texmf.d/ - then user made changes are tried to be merged with ucf The above description explains where you should make changes. You also could read /usr/share/doc/tex-common/TeX-on-Debian.{pdf,txt,html} /usr/share/doc/tex-common/README.Debian.{pdf,txt,html} /usr/share/doc/tex-common/ebian-TeX-Policy.{pdf,txt,html} (in this order it is probably the easiest!) Thanks. Best wishes Norbert ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Dr. Norbert Preining Associate Professor JAIST Japan Advanced Institute of Science and Technology preining at jaist.ac.jp Vienna University of Technology preining at logic.at Debian Developer (Debian TeX Task Force) preining at debian.org gpg DSA: 0x09C5B094 fp: 14DF 2E6C 0307 BE6D AD76 A9C0 D2BF 4AA3 09C5 B094 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- LYBSTER (n., vb.) The artificial chuckle in the voice-over at the end of a supposedly funny television commercial. --- Douglas Adams, The Meaning of Liff From mpg at elzevir.fr Thu Oct 29 18:29:54 2009 From: mpg at elzevir.fr (=?ISO-8859-1?Q?Manuel_P=E9gouri=E9-Gonnard?=) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 18:29:54 +0100 Subject: [texhax] [tex-live] texmf.cnf problem for DevanagariTeX in Ubuntu904/Texlive In-Reply-To: <1256732414.4ae836fea9f82@webmail.mun.ca> References: <1256732414.4ae836fea9f82@webmail.mun.ca> Message-ID: <4AE9D112.4080703@elzevir.fr> P. P. Narayanaswami a ?crit : > I use Texlive that is bundled with Ubuntu 9.04 with the texmf root > directory residing at /usr/share/texmf. So the tex-live list is probably not the best place. Actually, part of your problem is specific to the Debian/Ubuntu packaging of TeX Live, and maybe the other part is general. > I wanted to install DevanagariTeX2.15, > whose filesystem confirms to TDS. The instruction that comes with the README > file is is to edit the texmf.cnf file (in web2c directory) > and modify the TEXMF variable. Insert the line > DEVNAG = /path/to/velthuis > and then modify the TEXMF definition as: > TEXMF = {!!$DEVNAG,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN} You should indeed add $DEVNAG, probably at the beginning. But you probably have more that just TEXMFLOCAL and TEXMFMAIN. On my Debian stable machine with texlive-full from Debian, I have: TEXMF = {$TEXMFCONFIG,$TEXMFVAR,$TEXMFHOME,$TEXMFSYSCONFIG,!!$TEXMFSYSVAR,!!$TEXMFLOCAL,!!$TEXMFMAIN,!!$TEXMFDIST} > Rebuild the file database. > I didn't test, but I think you should also change TEXMFDBS by adding $DEVNAG too. Otherwise, mktexlsr will not create a ls-R file in DVENAG. Or you can omit the !! in front of $DEVNAG in your TEXMF definition, if the DEVNAG tree is not too big. > When I do exactly as above, nothing happens and kpathsea library is not finding > the files. I think it is because you have a !! in front of DEVNAG in TEXMF, but no ls-R at the root. > % This file is automatically generated by update-texmf This is Debian/Ubuntu-specific. Please have a look an man update-texmf for details. > % PLEASE DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE DIRECTLY. It is meant to be generated from > % files in /etc/texmf/texmf.d/. > % While changes made by users will not be overwritten, they will cause > % you trouble. You will be shown the differences between the edited and > % the newly created file. We will try to merge our and your changes, but > % that might not always work, and you will probably have to edit again. > % Therefore, if you want a smooth upgrade, please edit the files > % in /etc/texmf/texmf.d, > % or create an additional one (with the extension '.cnf'), > % and invoke update-texmf. > > What does this mean? That the file you are looking at is a generated file. You should edit the source files in texmf.d and re-generate the file using update-texmf if you want to avoid problem on update of the Debian packages. Manuel. From uwe.lueck at web.de Thu Oct 29 21:09:42 2009 From: uwe.lueck at web.de (Uwe =?iso-8859-1?Q?L=FCck?=) Date: Thu, 29 Oct 2009 21:09:42 +0100 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <5.1.0.14.0.20091028155222.0286d060@pop3.web.de> References: <4AE7D83F.9030806@comcast.net> <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20091029210152.0287d5c0@pop3.web.de> See the UK TeX FAQ http://www.tex.ac.uk/cgi-bin/texfaq2html?label=texthings for what I earlier wrote about bill lam's ambigous term `tex' -- Uwe. At 16:47 28.10.09, Uwe L?ck wrote: >At 03:03 28.10.09, bill lam wrote: >>I'm unfamiliar with both tex and latex. Should my time better spent on >>learning tex or latex? Presumably learning curve of tex is even more >>steeper than that of latex, but I saw some forum members said they use >>plain tex. I would like to know before deciding, >> >>1. Do common packages such as supertabular and cjk work on tex? >>2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that >> true? >>3. What will be the advantage of plain tex over latex? > >LaTeX is a script-like user interface to the binary TeX program, i.e., >Knuth's versions up to TeX3, or extensions of the latter, most notably: >e-TeX, pdfTeX, XeTeX. > >Plain TeX is kind of an alternative user interface to TeX, but with a few >exceptions, it is just a part of LaTeX. ... "in a silent way", however: >plain TeX code is present in the LaTeX source latex.ltx, but usual LaTeX >documentation doesn't mention it. Plain TeX and LaTeX are called "formats". > >When you are writing `tex', it is not quite clear whether you are >referring to the binary or to the format Plain TeX. This confusion seems >to lurk in other postings. > >Books like The TeXbook or TeX for the Impatient describe the binary engine >as well as the Plain TeX format, both is missing in usual LaTeX documentation. [...] >>1. Do common packages such as supertabular and cjk work on tex? > >They work when you use the TeX engine with the LaTeX format. They usually >don't with Plain TeX only (running the TeX engine). miniltx.tex can extend >Plain TeX so some more packages that usually are "LaTeX" packages can be used. > >>2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that true? > >At 06:35 28.10.09, Pierre MacKay wrote: >>It is nonsense to speak of LaTeX as developing, while TeX is not. LaTeX >>is a macro package built on top of TeX. It can not "develop" in the >>sense of altering the basic engine, because Donald Knuth has taken great >>care to ensure archival compatibility for all input files that ever ran >>in TeX3. > >Well, some call obvious truths "nonsense", maybe thinking `don't waste >your time with saying things that everybody knows' (not saying this >outright instead of just thinking, probably they consider it too obvious >to waste their time with also saying it). > >Knuth's TeX3 engine does not develop anymore, due to Knuth's decision. > >At 06:35 28.10.09, Pierre MacKay wrote: >>If a package requires something that cannot be run in the basic TeX3 >>engine, it may not be called TeX. > >What may not be called TeX? > >I mentioned extensions of TeX like e-TeX, pdfTeX, XeTeX. There are LaTeX >packages that require running such an extension of the TeX program. Their >development may not have stopped as definitely as TeX's, but this point is >quite irrelevant. > >>2. Some said latex is actively developing while tex is not, is that true? > >Considering the confusion of `TeX' with `plain TeX', a point in saying >this is that many people work on improving LaTeX by either improving the >standard macros or by writing own LaTeX packages for new features, and by >improving their own packages. There seems to be almost no development of >Plain TeX in this sense. From reinhard.kotucha at web.de Fri Oct 30 00:58:31 2009 From: reinhard.kotucha at web.de (Reinhard Kotucha) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 00:58:31 +0100 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <20091028162624.GC27063@eureca.de> References: <4AE829CA.14627.FB2788@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091028162624.GC27063@eureca.de> Message-ID: <19178.11303.933545.401506@zaphod.ms25.net> On 28 October 2009 Susan Dittmar wrote: > But I do not know much of my car and drive it nonetheless. But you attended a course in order to get your driver license, right? Regards, Reinhard -- ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Reinhard Kotucha Phone: +49-511-3373112 Marschnerstr. 25 D-30167 Hannover mailto:reinhard.kotucha at web.de ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- Microsoft isn't the answer. Microsoft is the question, and the answer is NO. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- From Susan.Dittmar at gmx.de Fri Oct 30 12:11:30 2009 From: Susan.Dittmar at gmx.de (Susan Dittmar) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:11:30 +0100 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <19178.11303.933545.401506@zaphod.ms25.net> References: <4AE829CA.14627.FB2788@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091028162624.GC27063@eureca.de> <19178.11303.933545.401506@zaphod.ms25.net> Message-ID: <20091030111130.GB8267@eureca.de> Quoting Reinhard Kotucha (reinhard.kotucha at web.de): > On 28 October 2009 Susan Dittmar wrote: > > But I do not know much of my car and drive it nonetheless. > But you attended a course in order to get your driver license, right? Of course I did. I think this is getting way out of hand. This discussion started, if I remember correctly, with someone who wanted to start using the TeX machinery. He asked whether he should start with LaTeX or plain TeX. For my taste there were far too many responses stressing the importance of the underlying TeX. I do not disagree with the authors of those posts concerning TeX's importance, but I wanted to shed light on the approach of *starting* with LaTeX. Not even to tell them wrong, just as another opinion. LaTeX, in my eyes, allows good results with less effort and less learning than using plain TeX. I work in a very small firm, and all our correspondence is done using some kind of TeX. I did the coding for most of the stuff that is used now, and I chose LaTeX, because I could reuse the work of a lot of people who know more of the TeX innards than me. My boss is an assembler type guy. So the plain TeX commands appeal to him. But he never invested the time to learn about typography. He thinks "I want to start a new paragraph here and I want it to have some vertical distance from the previous paragraph" and adds a macro he once created with some fixed vertical space, without any thought about which kind of vertical space would be typographically correct at this place. With his non-willingness to learn about the underlaying typographical concepts, I wish he used a more LaTeX kind of approach -- allowing the engine to choose the correct kind of spacing. Looking at him, I would tell any beginner to start with LaTeX. You *can* go into depth (and deep into the innards of TeX) then, but you need not. And you are less prone to falling into bad programming habits -- especially if you have to learn from books and internet alone, with no one looking over your shoulder from time to time. Believe me, I did not learn much from my theoretical driver's lessons. It was the practical part, with a real person tutoring me, that taught me how to drive. Something I sorely miss when learning programming languages... Susan -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: not available Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 189 bytes Desc: not available URL: From will.adams at frycomm.com Fri Oct 30 12:40:30 2009 From: will.adams at frycomm.com (William Adams) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 07:40:30 -0400 Subject: [texhax] automated document processing (was Re: tex vs latex) In-Reply-To: References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> , <5.1.0.14.0.20091028155222.0286d060@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: On Oct 28, 2009, at 6:57 PM, C.A.Rowley at open.ac.uk wrote: > Why have the fundamental processes of automated document processing > at most levels progressed not at all during that same period? (I > exclude font technologies from this indictment.) It's a hard problem, and one which few companies are willing to invest in. Commercial software developers have to sell software which users are able to learn, and are willing to use, so one ends up w/ na?ve users treating computers are glorified memory typewriters w/ advanced features ignored or mis-used. Software is tested and evaluated in periodicals by journalists who find it easier to manage a long list of features and yes / no checkboxes than any sort of in-depth evaluation of how a system works and can be used most efficiently. That said, the fundamentals of this are kind of invariant, aren't they? Typography ultimately devolves to key-value pairs of text and markup and how one processes that. The best markup scheme I've found is TEI: http://www.tei-c.org/ index.xml and there're some neat tools for converting that to LaTeX. (I hope that there will be some direct integration w/ LaTeX-3?) An open-ended rant about difficulties in the industry: - no way to encode index entries in XML and have them set as such in InDesign - no flexible space before heads in InDesign w/o resorting to scripts which often require manual intervention - no way to conditionally insert graphics in InDesign (actually, one can't get graphics in when using Adobe Tagged Text and if one uses XML, one can't get in index entries, so one has to resort to hybrid work-flows and proprietary tools like XTags) - tools which focus on allowing the user to do things like instantiate 45 different spot colours in a file w/ a single menu command rather than automating processing colours, &c. (Adobe Illustrator to name names) - no way to encode graphic sizes in html using relative sizes (ems) when using CSS or any other system I've found - RIPs which will not honour a request to provide a .pdf at a particular Adobe Acrobat compatibility level (there, my week in a nutshell) By contrast, TeX / LaTeX (and ConTeXt and other variants) work, are extensible and the only limits to what one can do w/ them are human ingenuity and available computer processing power and storage capacity. William -- William Adams senior graphic designer Fry Communications Sphinx of black quartz, judge my vow. From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Fri Oct 30 12:47:00 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 11:47:00 +0000 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <20091030111130.GB8267@eureca.de> References: <4AE829CA.14627.FB2788@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091028162624.GC27063@eureca.de> <19178.11303.933545.401506@zaphod.ms25.net> <20091030111130.GB8267@eureca.de> Message-ID: <4AEAD234.6040801@Rhul.Ac.Uk> Susan Dittmar wrote: > For my taste there were far too many responses stressing the importance of > the underlying TeX. Well, dare I suggest that perhaps there was good reason for that large number of similarly-themed responses ? > I do not disagree with the authors of those posts > concerning TeX's importance, but I wanted to shed light on the approach of > *starting* with LaTeX. Not even to tell them wrong, just as another > opinion. LaTeX, in my eyes, allows good results with less effort and less > learning than using plain TeX. I don't think I would agree with "good results", but I would have no problem with "adequate". > My boss is an assembler type guy. So the plain TeX commands appeal to him. > But he never invested the time to learn about typography. He thinks "I want > to start a new paragraph here and I want it to have some vertical distance > from the previous paragraph" and adds a macro he once created with some > fixed vertical space, without any thought about which kind of vertical > space would be typographically correct at this place. With his > non-willingness to learn about the underlaying typographical concepts, I > wish he used a more LaTeX kind of approach -- allowing the engine to choose > the correct kind of spacing. I sympathise with you. Someone who sets out to use Plain TeX without also taking the trouble to try to understand typography is going to get into deep deep doo-doo. They will also almost certainly follow Knuth's style of coding which (sadly) does almost nothing to separate form from content (\bigskip and friends are really evil, IMHO). But if you have someone who (a) understands (or is willing to learn) typography, and (b) wishes to write his/her own content-oriented interface to the TeX primitives, rather than relying on either LaTeX or Plain TeX, then he/she should be congratulated rather than castigated. No matter whether someone uses LaTeX or Plain TeX, they /still/ need to have a basic understanding of typography. If they lack that (and aren't willing to acquire it), then both LaTeX and Plain TeX can produce execrable results, but in general LaTeX is more likely to produce /acceptable/ results in unskilled hands. Plain TeX cedes far more control to the user, which is both a benefit and a risk : for myself, I wish more TeX users were willing to learn a little about typography and then develop their own interface(s) to low-level TeX, but I accept that many (perhaps, sadly, even most) lack the time, the interest and the inclination so to do. Philip Taylor From frainj at gmail.com Fri Oct 30 13:05:50 2009 From: frainj at gmail.com (John C Frain) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:05:50 +0000 Subject: [texhax] learning tex vs latex In-Reply-To: <20091030111130.GB8267@eureca.de> References: <4AE829CA.14627.FB2788@hh-brasil.bol.com.br> <20091028162624.GC27063@eureca.de> <19178.11303.933545.401506@zaphod.ms25.net> <20091030111130.GB8267@eureca.de> Message-ID: I came in on this conversation late. If I am doing computational mathematics I use various libraries. I have been known to make some minor changes to source code in numerical recipes or gsl but, in general, I do not want to reinvent the wheel. My attitude to LaTeX is similar. I may fine tune something occasionally using a bit of TeX but I have produced many papers and reports using LaTeX and I am very happy with what I have done. Most of the people that I have introduced to TeX would not have the patience to use the original TeX.. Most of these people would be working in quantitative economics and would interact with computers using various specialist packages. They would have little or no experience of computer programming languages such as C, Java etc. LateX would be the only option for them I have no experience of the Plain TeX format. Best Regards John 2009/10/30 Susan Dittmar : > > Quoting Reinhard Kotucha (reinhard.kotucha at web.de): >> On 28 October 2009 Susan Dittmar wrote: >> ?> But I do not know much of my car and drive it nonetheless. >> But you attended a course in order to get your driver license, right? > > Of course I did. > > I think this is getting way out of hand. This discussion started, if I > remember correctly, with someone who wanted to start using the TeX > machinery. He asked whether he should start with LaTeX or plain TeX. > > For my taste there were far too many responses stressing the importance of > the underlying TeX. I do not disagree with the authors of those posts > concerning TeX's importance, but I wanted to shed light on the approach of > *starting* with LaTeX. Not even to tell them wrong, just as another > opinion. LaTeX, in my eyes, allows good results with less effort and less > learning than using plain TeX. > > I work in a very small firm, and all our correspondence is done using some > kind of TeX. I did the coding for most of the stuff that is used now, and I > chose LaTeX, because I could reuse the work of a lot of people who know > more of the TeX innards than me. > > My boss is an assembler type guy. So the plain TeX commands appeal to him. > But he never invested the time to learn about typography. He thinks "I want > to start a new paragraph here and I want it to have some vertical distance > from the previous paragraph" and adds a macro he once created with some > fixed vertical space, without any thought about which kind of vertical > space would be typographically correct at this place. ?With his > non-willingness to learn about the underlaying typographical concepts, I > wish he used a more LaTeX kind of approach -- allowing the engine to choose > the correct kind of spacing. > > Looking at him, I would tell any beginner to start with LaTeX. You *can* go > into depth (and deep into the innards of TeX) then, but you need not. And > you are less prone to falling into bad programming habits -- especially if > you have to learn from books and internet alone, with no one looking over > your shoulder from time to time. > > Believe me, I did not learn much from my theoretical driver's lessons. It > was the practical part, with a real person tutoring me, that taught me how > to drive. Something I sorely miss when learning programming languages... > > ? ? ? ?Susan > > _______________________________________________ > TeX FAQ: http://www.tex.ac.uk/faq > Mailing list archives: http://tug.org/pipermail/texhax/ > More links: http://tug.org/begin.html > > Automated subscription management: http://tug.org/mailman/listinfo/texhax > Human mailing list managers: postmaster at tug.org > -- John C Frain Economics Department Trinity College Dublin Dublin 2 Ireland www.tcd.ie/Economics/staff/frainj/home.html mailto:frainj at tcd.ie mailto:frainj at gmail.com From P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk Fri Oct 30 13:09:48 2009 From: P.Taylor at Rhul.Ac.Uk (Philip TAYLOR) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 12:09:48 +0000 Subject: [texhax] automated document processing (was Re: tex vs latex) In-Reply-To: References: <20091028020337.GC3938@debian.b2j> , <5.1.0.14.0.20091028155222.0286d060@pop3.web.de> Message-ID: <4AEAD78C.9020405@Rhul.Ac.Uk> William Adams wrote: > - no way to encode graphic sizes in html using relative sizes (ems) when > using CSS or any other system I've found I don't understand : I can write ... and that will have the apparently desired effect. What additional feature(s) are you looking for in contexts such as this ? Philip Taylor From wes at hef.ru.nl Fri Oct 30 13:16:08 2009 From: wes at hef.ru.nl (W.J. Metzger) Date: Fri, 30 Oct 2009 13:16:08 +0100 (CET) Subject: [texhax] best way to revise a large existing text In-Reply-To: <4AE9CC9C.6030500@cam.ac.uk> References: <20090922134130.GA13574@lapse.rw.madduck.net> <200909221500.n8MF0pPC018794@bilbo.localnet> <20091023101618.GA4238@piper.oerlikon.madduck.net> <4AE5C749.5030905@cam.ac.uk> <4AE730F0.9050901@cam.ac.uk> <4AE9CC9C.6030500@cam.ac.uk> Message-ID: Frederik, Thanks for looking at this. So, it appears that if I would upgrade to the newest perl, I would get a warning message instead of a segmentation fault. Unfortunately, that is tricky, since I work on several computers for which I am not the administrator, and he prefers to wait for an rpm from Scientific Linux. Anyway, with the addition of the comment I avoid the problem for now. Please inform me when you have a new version of latexdiff. And thanks for your interest. Regards, Wes On Thu, 29 Oct 2009, Frederik Tilmann wrote: > Wes > > apologies for not having read your previous email carefully enough. My perl > still does not crash but I get a warning message that gives a clue why you > get a segfault: > "Complex regular subexpression recursion limit (32766) exceeded at > /home/tilmann/bin/latexdiff line 1159." > and as you say this occurs during the initial parsing (see below). Even with > that error I still get a reasonable result out (same as before) but of course > this could be different once differences are introduces. This bug is not very > straightforward to fix but I have been thinking for some time about parsing > the comments in a completely different way which would also solve this > problem, and your problem is an impetus to do this with high priority. Even > so unfortunately it will be some time before I get round to this, and in the > meantime I can only recommend upgrading your perl version which at least > allows approximate parsing of the troublesome documents. > > Regards > Frederik > > > > >> ~/tmp 85> latexdiff -V pap7.tex pap7.tex > pap7-diff.tex >> This is LATEXDIFF 0.5 (Algorithm::Diff 1.15 so) >> (c) 2004-2007 F J Tilmann >> Preamble Internal Type UNDERLINE >> Preamble Internal Type SAFE >> Preamble Internal Type FLOATSAFE >> Differencing preamble. >> amsmath package detected. >> Preprocessing body. (0.11 s) >> Splitting into latex tokens >> Parsing pap7.tex >> Complex regular subexpression recursion limit (32766) exceeded at >> /home/tilmann/bin/latexdiff line 1159. >> >> WARNING: Inconsistency in length of input string and parsed string: >> This often indicates faulty or non-standard latex code. >> In many cases you can ignore this and the following warning messages. >> Note that character numbers in the following are counted beginning after >> \begin{document} and are only approximate.DEBUG Original length 109458 >> Parsed length 109456 >> Complex regular subexpression recursion limit (32766) exceeded at >> /home/tilmann/bin/latexdiff line 1191. >> >> in terms of $Q$ the \taumodel\ provides a good description, much bette >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Missing characters near word 7199 character index: 101834-101845 Length: 9 >> Match: |provides | (expected match marked above). >> Parsing pap7.tex >> Complex regular subexpression recursion limit (32766) exceeded at >> /home/tilmann/bin/latexdiff line 1159. >> >> WARNING: Inconsistency in length of input string and parsed string: >> This often indicates faulty or non-standard latex code. >> In many cases you can ignore this and the following warning messages. >> Note that character numbers in the following are counted beginning after >> \begin{document} and are only approximate.DEBUG Original length 109458 >> Parsed length 109456 >> Complex regular subexpression recursion limit (32766) exceeded at >> /home/tilmann/bin/latexdiff line 1191. >> >> in terms of $Q$ the \taumodel\ provides a good description, much bette >> ^^^^^^^^^^^ >> Missing characters near word 7199 character index: 101834-101845 Length: 9 >> Match: |provides | (expected match marked above). >> (0.65 s) >> Pass 1: Expanding text commands and merging isolated identities with >> changed blocks >> 7848 matching tokens in 0 blocks. >> 0 discarded tokens in 0 blocks. >> 0 appended tokens in 0 blocks. >> (0.08 s) >> Pass 2: inserting DIF tokens and mark up. >> 7848 matching tokens. >> 0 discarded tokens in 0 blocks. >> 0 appended tokens in 0 blocks. >> (0.11 s) >> Postprocessing body. >> (0.03 s) >> Done. > > On 28/10/09 11:28, W.J. Metzger wrote: >> Dear Frederik, >> >> This is what I get too for latexdiff pap7.tex pap7.tex > pap7-diff.tex >> But did you try it removing line 635? That is the line >> %%%%%%%% } ADDING THIS LINE PREVENTS segmentation fault in latexdiff >> If I remove that line I get the segmentation fault. >> >> Cheers, Wes >> >> On Tue, 27 Oct 2009, Frederik Tilmann wrote: >> >> > Dear Wes, >> > >> > I can't reproduce the error: see the following transcript. >> > >> > > ~/tmp 56> latexdiff pap7.tex pap7.tex > pap7-diff.tex >> > > >> > > WARNING: Inconsistency in length of input string and parsed string: >> > > This often indicates faulty or non-standard latex code. >> > > In many cases you can ignore this and the following warning messag